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Geoff's DB DH60 Moth

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Geoff Sleath15/12/2017 15:13:52
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3239 forum posts
247 photos

Having almost completed but not yet test flown, my Mew Gull, I've now made a very small start to my DB DH60 Moth. Needless to say I've been poring over Dwain's build thread get a feel for what's needed as well as studying the drawings and instructions.

First step was to pay a visit to what was Staples in Derby to get a copy of the plan to cut up into more manageable pieces (at the same time I copied the Hurricane plans ready for that build). Iwas surprised to find the company name had changed though the interior was much the same including the big copy section.

I got both plans copied for £4 each (a bigger expense was a new chair for my workshop - the old one was getting very tatty after 12 years heavy use - I'm retired!).

I've decided to start on the wings whilst I decide exactly which prototype to model - a Moth Major with a Tiger Moth cowl or a Gypsy Moth with the upright engine. After studying the drawing I think I can get the battery in under the motor so I'm leaning towards the DH60 with the upright engine to make it more different from my Tiger Moth.

battery placement.jpg

I cut the wing drawings from the copy and I have enough space on my building board to do 2 at a time. Unfortunately, I noticed a minor problem.

plans.jpg

The copier hadn't centralised the paper so He's missed off the trailing edge of the starboard wing! I thought it looked a bit narrow but only noticed it after I got home. Nothing else is affected so rather than go back and get it corrected, I'll live with it. I don't think it will be a problem as I have the original for reference but it is a bit annoying.

No glueing yet but before I start I'm going to drill holes in the ribs for the aileron servo wire tube and adjust the spar slot width where the dihedral brace fits. I think it'll be easier before it's all built.

Dwain's already done a comprehensive build log here so I won't be as detailed as he was except where I do things slightly differently (and because I don't want to shame myself!)

Geoff

Dwain Dibley.15/12/2017 16:18:35
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1225 forum posts
1246 photos

I will be tuning in with Great interest Geoff......As you say, its always a treat to see another take on things, 'tis for me anyway.

D.D.

Percy Verance15/12/2017 18:35:22
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7918 forum posts
152 photos

I'll be looking in too Geoff as I have just got another DB Moth kit, and this one will be for electric...........

I'm going to modify the lower wing centre section, building it as a part of the fuselage where the undercarriage fixes on. On both of the previous examples I built - the first was in 1990, and is my header pic - I did it as per plan and it was a pain having to fix the rear legs of the U/C in place each time prior to flight. I think this will be do-able, and should still leave enough room for access to gear etc.

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 15/12/2017 18:42:14

Geoff Sleath15/12/2017 20:58:02
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3239 forum posts
247 photos

I must admit I haven't found removing and replacing the under wing undercarriage mounting too much of a pain on my Tiger Moth - just slacken off 2 screws and remove another 2 doesn't take long. Moreover, that wing centre section allows access to the servos, receiver and the rest of the gubbins. I suppose if you make the wing in 3 parts the centre section will need to be removable for maintenance. It'll be interesting to see how you manage it.

Not much progress on the build. I've bored 16mm holes in the ribs (not always as neat as I'd like but not disastrously rubbish) for the paper or cardboard tubes to carry the servo wires to the individual aileron servos (airtek KPower 27gm MO200 metal gear/ball bearing 3kgcm torque). I was intending to cut the spar slots ready to accept the dihedral braces but after looking at the braces I've decided to wait until the wing is built. One thing I do intend doing is fitting the inter-spar webbing in front of the spars rather than behind because that will allow the braces to be glued directly yo the spars but, more importantly will make it much easier to clamp the leading edge sheeting to the spar as the glue sets.

I should have a pair of wings at least part built tomorrow.

Geoff

john stones 115/12/2017 21:27:58
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10345 forum posts
1475 photos

Very nice Geoff, long time since i built or owned a Tiggie, I wish you'd give over I'm trying to cut back. wink

Jon - Laser Engines15/12/2017 22:24:33
4570 forum posts
168 photos

No 4 stroke Geoff? I'm sure a nice 50 size would be more than enough, even a 40 would probably do.

Nice model though either way, and one I have my eye on.

Edited By Jon Harper - Laser Engines on 15/12/2017 22:24:58

Geoff Sleath15/12/2017 23:17:13
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3239 forum posts
247 photos

No John, this was always going to be electric.

EMax GT35626/05 710 rpm/volt on 4S 4AH LiPo and a 13x6.5 prop. Laser don't do a small enough engine anyway and even if they (you) did there'd be none in stock

Don't worry, though, my next build will be Laser 80 powered.

Geoff

Jon - Laser Engines15/12/2017 23:27:38
4570 forum posts
168 photos

yea we don't do a 50 any more. You would have to use something else, and there are many 50 size engines available. as for the stock, I'm trying :'(

Geoff Sleath16/12/2017 22:05:40
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3239 forum posts
247 photos

A bit of progress today with a pair of wings well on the way - and my first mistake! I'm building the top wings first as they're the simplest with no ailerons to bother about. It all went well until I temporarily offered up the wing tip sheeting and realised that although the spars only extend as far as the last rib, the leading edge 6mm square extends to be blended in with tip sheeting. Not a real stopper and a fairly simple bodge will recover my stupidly careless error.

wing build 1.jpg

Notice that I've fitted the spar webs in front of the spars. I think Peter Miller suggested this method because, as can be seen in the wing with l/e sheet in place, it's a lot easier to clamp the sheeting as the glue sets. The other wing now has its l/e sheeting on and I'll do both t/e sheets tomorrow.

Last níght I watched most of 'Out of Africa' on Netflix and I think I've decided on my model's scheme. The DH60G in the film is yellow and black and that did it for me. I'm not fond of silver Solartex as it seems to mark so easily so I was looking for a full-size with wings a different colour. I'm not even sure I'll cover in 'tex anyway. In a 1/6th scale model the texture is too coarse compared to full size and I'm thinking of using HK film if I can take some of the shine off.

Another 'problem' is that G-AAMY has the Tiger Moth style undercarriage rather than the through axle type supplied with the kit so I'll have to make my own as I did with my Tiger Moth. I think the wheels are vintage style rather than the fat tyred ones I have. I may still go for the fat tyres as the undercarriage is very stiff with no give at all and extra squidge factor helps my landing style

Geoff

Percy Verance17/12/2017 10:07:37
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7918 forum posts
152 photos

Hi again Geoff

I decided to shy away from silver tex for the same reason as yourself. My 1990 Moth had silver tex covered wings/tail, but I used plain white tex with two light dusty coats of Solarlac silver on top of dope. That did the job nicely, but was of course time consuming.

Tony Nij Noj whatsisname uses film covering flatted down with (i think) either wire wool or very fine wet & dry. He then paints over it. Works for him it seems. Not yet tried it myself though. Maybe best to de-shine before actually covering?

If I remember correctly Geoff, I sidestepped the awkward bit at the tip leading edge by using small pieces of block to fair it all in once the tip sheeting was fixed in place.

Edited By Percy Verance on 17/12/2017 10:15:55

Martian17/12/2017 10:20:05
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Dwain Dibley.17/12/2017 10:50:49
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1225 forum posts
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Hi Geoff,

Excellent progress so far.

I think I made the same leading edge Boo boo, we will blame the plan......LOL, but as you say, an easy fix. Yellow is the best scheme in my opinion. Also looks great in the air, and very visible.

I just realised that I still have to do my Decals....surprise, even tho the Bird has flown.

D.D.

Geoff Sleath18/12/2017 22:30:02
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3239 forum posts
247 photos

A little more progress yesterday and today. Did a bit more to the wings and found it necessary to modify the supplied T/E stock to act as infill at the root and tip. Not a big deal with the valuable Permagrit sander.

te infill.jpg

... and then fit before the 1.5mm sheet T/E top rather than afterwards as suggested in the instructions.

te infill 2.jpg

With the main board filled up with wings I used the cut out drawing for the lower wing centre section on my smaller board - the workshop is getting a bit cramped! I like clothes pegs when a lot of clamps are needed to get the L/E sheeting to glue firmly to the L/E itself!

wing build 2.jpg

The lower wing centre section not only joins the wings, it also supports the undercarriage attachment point as well as the wing dowels at the L/E and bolts at the T/E. I get a bit paranoid about these things and added a few extras.

First I made some 1.5mm ply doublers to 4 ribs that have the U/C plate attached and also added some triangular stock to spread the load. It's not all that clear how the wing dowels are supposed to fit but I eventually came to the conclusion that I needed to file grooves in the L/E to accommodate the dowels so they could lie along the top of the U/C plate. The instructions say they should glue at the L/E, the U/C plate and an infill between the front spars. I opted to fit 3mm ply plates in front of the spars with a 6mm (actually it turned out to be 1/4".) hole to accept the back of the dowels. Also, using a piece of rock hard balsa I've had for ages and never found a use for I made a block to glue on the U/C plate.

You may ask why I'm so particular about the wing dowels. Well on my DB Moth the dowels actually came loose because they were splitting the balsa retaining block. I cured it laminating on some hardwood sheet with the balsa with the grain the opposite way. Not had a problem since.

Here's the centre section with one dowel temporarily in place.

centre section lower 1.jpg

And here are the parts I made to fit the dowel. There is very little extra weight as the plywood and balsa parts are quite small. I used 30 minute epoxy to glue both the U/C plate and the dowel fixings.

centre section lower 2.jpg

That's it for now.

Geoff

Martyn K19/12/2017 09:06:17
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4819 forum posts
3498 photos

Watching.. Looking forward to this one as I have always fancied a DB kit

Jon - Laser Engines19/12/2017 09:37:53
4570 forum posts
168 photos

I am tempted by one myself. I have a number of smaller 4 strokes kicking about and i am sure one of my saito 45's could find a home in the moth.

Dwain Dibley.19/12/2017 23:28:44
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1225 forum posts
1246 photos

A fair bit of progress Geoff, and looking Good. I think I beefed my dowels up too, I checked my thread but could not tell. they survived the maiden anyway LOL.

D.D.

Percy Verance20/12/2017 06:43:57
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7918 forum posts
152 photos

I can't recall any issues with the wing dowels on either of my previous two Moths, but I did ensure they were stuck firmly to the undercarriage support. Certainly, a bit of reinforcement won't go amiss.

Martyn

You won't be disappointed if you do buy one. My first Moth (the one in my header photo) was from 1990, and back then the quality could be a bit variable as they were die-cut. Once Eddie acquired DB Sport & Scale things improved dramatically as he took on the re-design of the kits, one by one. Eddie introduced lazer cutting, and also modified/simplified parts of the construction. As you'll no doubt know, the company is now in the hands of Richard Bristow, whom appears to be upholding the high standards set by Eddie Stocker. The kits are now among the best around, being very nicely produced and presented.

Jon

A Saito .45 was the engine first used in the Moth when it was being developed. I think an OS.40fs was another engine trialled. The DB Moth/Tiger Moth doesn't need lots of grunt. It flies really nicely with a moderate powerplant. I used an OS .48 surpass in my 1990 Moth, and that had plenty in reserve.

Edited By Percy Verance on 20/12/2017 06:51:25

Jon - Laser Engines20/12/2017 08:31:25
4570 forum posts
168 photos

I have no doubt Percy. My Nieuport has a saito 45 and has all the power it needs. I certainly wouldnt use more than a 50 i dont think.

Geoff Sleath20/12/2017 16:57:15
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3239 forum posts
247 photos

No more progress for a while - possibly New Year and certainly not before Xmas. The Moth has been cleared away and put on one side partly because the weather's actually flyable right now.

I test flew my Percival Mew Gull today (90% successful - no damage anyway apart from a scuffed cowl where it nosed over on my less than perfect landing and a broken prop from another nose over when I tried to taxi back). A few photos later on my Mew Gull thread but no flying shots as there was no photographer.

Another test flight tonight in the village hall. My 30cm ws SE5a will take to the air in the hope there's enough space to complete a circuit without hitting the walls - there's not much room. It's from the Eachine kit I bought from Banggood last year. I have an unstarted one to build once I see if this rough-built one is OK.

Geoff

Geoff Sleath21/01/2018 14:20:53
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3239 forum posts
247 photos

Now that the tedium of Christmas, New Year and, worse, my birthday are all over it's time to get the Moth out from under our oak settle and restart the build.

I left it with 2 wing panels part completed and the lower wing centre section built. The hard bit was trying to remember where I'd got to so took the easy way out and did the wing tips of the upper wing. They're a bit tricky but I eventually settled on a method.

The sheet tips are curved and held in place with 2 sets of brackets at the spar positions and the end are glued to the leading and trailing edges. Trouble is I'd cut short the leading edge flush with the end rib by mistake. I solved the problems of edge and end grain glueing by adding some extra support pieces which worked so well the sheet tip was firmly held even before final glueing.

wing build 3.jpg

There's a strip at the t/e and support blocks (which were trimmed after glueing) each side of the triangular supports (which just didn't glue properly end grain to end grain to the spar ends) and another strip at the l/e which supports both sheet and the added bit of l/e spar to replace the bit I cut off by mistake.

The triangular support on the main spar supplied (part # 239a) was too small, so I had to make another from scrap balsa. Not a big deal as it's a very simple part to cut and there's plenty of scrap spare to make it but it's odd that a CNC cut part should be wrong. Generally this is is an excellent kit overall as I'm sure Dwain will confirm from his own build.

Next job is to make the top wing centre section and join the top wings. Then complete the bottom wing before going on to the part that Ilike best - the fuselage.

Geoff

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