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Don Fry21/05/2018 19:01:35
2794 forum posts
35 photos

Hence, BEB's advise that you use a credit, or debit card, as a second line of defence. Thieves will always infest the world.

Mike T21/05/2018 19:21:21
354 forum posts
27 photos

NB - use of a credit/debit card will NOT be a second line of defence if you are paying with Paypal!

You will have some rights, but you will lose the pretty draconian rights you get under the Consumer Credit Act!

Edited By Mike T on 21/05/2018 19:21:58

Edited By Mike T on 21/05/2018 19:25:01

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator21/05/2018 20:19:21
15748 forum posts
1460 photos
Posted by Ben B on 21/05/2018 14:08:57:
Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 21/05/2018 12:36:40:

I thought I would relate a recent experience - it's not a scam as such, but none-the-less it is (in my opinion) dishonest dealing and one to watch out for.

I ordered an expensive (~£350) ARTF from a model supplier via their website. This trader was not in the UK they were in Europe - in an EU country where I think you could be generally assured of fair dealing. I ordered from them because they were the only place I could find with the model in stock and it was marked as "in stock" on their site. No one else had this model and maybe that should have sounded alarm bells in my head. Anyway - I bought the model and paid, in full, via PayPal.

I received an email confirming my purchase and very quickly the item was marked as "dispatched" on my account page on the company's website. A week passed, I had no tracking number and no sign of the model. Mmmm? So I tried to contact the company, just to ask politely at this stage, when I might expect delivery. I tried their website contact page and their email address but with no joy. No one would answer. I even tried telephoning, but that just got a recorded message.

Now I'm quite concerned. We are two weeks in, I have paid but I have no model and no one is talking to me. So I decide to "kick" them into action, I start a compliant in PayPal. Now if you have done this you will know it is a two stage process; first they set up a "resolution centre" where you and the seller can discuss the issue and see if you can reach a mutually acceptable resolution. If not, the dispute goes to a full dispute and PayPal will arbitrate.

Boy! Instant response from the company - but not in the resolution centre - they send me an email directly. It says that they have the model but "cannot" dispatch it until I drop the PayPal dispute - then they will send it. They are not happy.

Now the problem here is if I drop the PayPal dispute I accept that the problem has been resolved and PayPal will not allow me to reopen it. That would mean I would be without any protection as a buyer at all. Given their previous lack of response I was not inclined to be trusting of this company. I could close the dispute, they don't send the model and there would be very little I could do about it! So I copied their email into the PayPal Resolution Centre (so there would be an official record) and refused their kind offer. I pointed out that they had my money and the model, that isn't the way things work normally! I gave an undertaking, in public in the Resolution Centre, that I would drop the dispute the instant the model arrived with me. No answer.

A number of days pass, I send notes though the Resolution Centre demanding either my money back or the model - no answer.

So, I issue an ultimatum, either they refund or dispatch by 17:00 CET the next day or I escalate this and go for full PayPal arbitration - which they will obviously lose. All I get back is an email repeating that they "cannot" dispatch while the dispute is open.

At 16:00CET the next day I remind them that they have just one hour before I press the button. At 16:40CET I received a notice from PayPal that they had refunded my money!

The big lesson to be learnt here I believe is always buy through a system that offers protection, PayPal or a Credit Card. If I had paid for this directly on my debit card - I'd have been sunk.



They actually wouldn't have had your money- Paypal would be holding in. As soon as someone opens a resolution centre dispute Paypal claim back the money and only hand it over once the dispute has been resolved. Hence, I suspect, their refusal to post until the dispute is resolved. Equally, if they'd posted when they said they had......... Strange that they did that via their own website though, on Ebay sellers do it (mark as dispatched before it actually is) because Ebay monitor how quickly things are marked as dispatched and them (as well as the 5 star feedbacks) decides on seller fees.....

Personally I believe the reason they wouldn't send the model had absolutely nothing to do with PayPal or the resolution centre (bear in mind they had already had two weeks since they marked as dispatched) - I believe the real reason was they didn't have it to send! They were stalling me while they tried to get one.


Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 21/05/2018 20:20:23

Martyn K22/05/2018 15:24:58
4712 forum posts
3371 photos

Not trying to hijack this thread, but I just received an enquiry from Henry Ford (possibly a different one) on the UKCAA Website

UK Classic Aerobatic Association

Thank you for contacting the Association We will respond shortly,




+44 7700 900077


Hello, I am interested in your planes. Please can you send me further details? Thank you.

IP Address:

UK Classic Aerobatic Association


The IP Address is Nigerian (which rings alarm bells) but the UK phone number quoted is a Fake..

+44 7700 900077, Mobile Phone Number, UK

+44 7700 900077 is a fake mobile telephone number. Avoid unintentionally using real phone numbers by selecting from our range of fictitious telephone numbers. You can find other random mobile phone numbers in the list below. Please note that all mobile numbers generated by Fake Number, including +44 7700 900077, are fake so won't work for phone number verification.

If you have been contacted by +44 7700 900077, you ought to be extremely cautious about answering their calls. The caller ID has almost certainly been spoofed with an officially reserved mobile number, either as part of an elaborate prank or worse yet, a malicious scam. Be vigilant and don't let fraudsters con you out of your money. Don't accept any calls or text messages from +44 7700 900077!

I probably wont bother ringing back..







Edited By Martyn K on 22/05/2018 15:25:22

Edited By Martyn K on 22/05/2018 15:25:56

cymaz22/05/2018 15:48:14
7916 forum posts
1032 photos

If I get an odd number on my answer phone using 1471...Google is a great resource telling you all you need to know about it. Most numbers that don’t leave a message are sales

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