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Electric Cars.

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Percy Verance17/02/2018 16:52:04
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Oh, and Ikura. Don't overlook the fact that if the vehicles you mentioned were leased, then those leasing costs would be offset against business expenses. And if we're talking outright purchase, then the e Golf would qualify for the Government's £5000 grant, but the diesel powered Golf would not..... The batteries themselves are rarely owned outright, but if they were then most manufacturers offer a decent warranty. Nissan offer 8 years or 100,000 miles on their Leaf pack. And even after that point, a refurbished pack can still give a further few years as a storage device. Few people buy a new car and keep it for 8 years.........

How much do you reckon a new diesel Golf bought today will be worth in 5 years time? New diesel car sales are down 25% or so in the last few months alone ....... Can't bode too well for future used values can it?

 

 

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 17/02/2018 17:05:22

Phil 917/02/2018 17:08:58
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Posted by Percy Verance on 17/02/2018 16:52:04:

. Few people buy a new car and keep it for 8 years.........

why is that. I think a car should last 12 years minimum and electric cars should in theory last longer with less moving parts and less to go wrong if the battery can be changed and is not an integral part of the car.

Percy Verance17/02/2018 17:24:58
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There could be many reasons Phil. Financial perhaps, or some people just like a change after a few years. There is also the attraction of newer, shinier models with increased specifications etc..... And yes, the vehicles themselves should last 15 to 20 years, but again it depends how they are looked after. I once knew a bloke who could virtually ruin a new car inside three years....  My neighbour bought a new Nissan Quash (whatever they're called) three years back, and he is constantly washing and polishing it. He has a dog too, but I've noticed the dog isn't allowed in the car. Incidentally, I had no idea you could be fined up to £5000 for having an unsecured dog or other pet in your car while driving. Apparently, they'll nick you for distracted driving......

The less to go wrong angle is a good one Phil. It'll be interesting to note whether EV servicing costs are much reduced over engine powered vehicles. Anyone have any info?

Edited By Percy Verance on 17/02/2018 17:42:30

Frank Skilbeck17/02/2018 17:49:30
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Apparently serving costs are much less and the taxi firms that have been running Leafs report that they brake pads last forever as most of the "braking" is done by recharging the battery, regenerative braking.

We worry about battery like but the cars have an indicator on the dash telling you the battery health, so if you are buying 2nd hand then you can check the battery condition before you buy. Chap I know bought a 10 plate BMW X5 a few weeks ago (at auction), the gearbox has just packed up!

Percy Verance17/02/2018 18:02:38
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Frank. I'd have thought that if a used electric car was sold through it's original dealer network, then maybe it'll have a refurbished battery pack if it's battery health isn't up to scratch? Wow, a big BMW gone wrong? Sounds pretty costly to me........ And yes Frank, I'd heard the Leaf was performing admirably with taxi fleets up and down the UK. The reports I've seen seem to suggest the drivetrain stands up fine, but the interiors tend to suffer from the very heavy use they receive. Hardly surprising really. I think I could well be gravitating towards a Leaf in a couple of years or so. The lack of charging points is a worry though. There are only 12800 public EV connection points available in the UK at the moment..... wink but lots and lots of street lights. smiley  It is interesting to note that Nissan state 80% of Leaf owners charge exclusively at home, and never use public charging points. And with the new Leaf having a 220+ mile range, that's likely to remain the case I'd have thought. Incidentally Frank, Nissan have also said that from 2019 battery range on the Leaf will again be increased by a further 30 to 50%.......

 

 

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 17/02/2018 18:13:38

Bob Cotsford17/02/2018 19:43:08
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I wonder how heating and lighting affect eg the Leaf on a cold winter's night? Since giving up work I have been thinking a hybrid or pure electric would cover my needs when I next change my car. As long as it's an estate or large MPV that is! 4 wheel drives (motor on each corner) appeals too, to reduce the winter period when the field can't be accessed by 2 wheel drive cars.

Percy Verance17/02/2018 19:53:02
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That's a good question Bob. How long is a piece of string? Obviously there will be a reduction in overall range, but as Nissan point out we'd be talking extremes here. It seems most leaf owners understandably use their cars mainly for the daily commute Bob, which Nissan says averages 15 to 20 miles. Even at that Bob, as long as you begin your winter night time journey with a reasonably full charge, you shouldn't have any issues. It's difficult to be exact Bob, as there are variables at play here.

Large MPV/SUV hybrid? My first thoughts are the Kia Niro Bob. Gets quite good reports from what I've seen. Plus buying a two year old one will still leave you with 5 years of warranty. I've not had a Kia, but I have had a Hyundai, and the two companies share many of their drivetrains. It never felt at any time like a car that would let you down.....

Edited By Percy Verance on 17/02/2018 20:01:26

Bob Cotsford17/02/2018 19:56:53
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True Brian. Long winter journeys are the exception these days, at least for me they are. I wonder if the heater works instantly? That would be a real bonus at this time of yearlaugh

Percy Verance17/02/2018 20:04:32
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I can't say for certain Bob, but it's got to be an electric heater so I'd have 50p on it producing heat within seconds.

Come to think of it Bob, I can't remember the last time I went out in my car on a winter's night. dont know

Edited By Percy Verance on 17/02/2018 20:07:14

Percy Verance17/02/2018 20:17:10
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Bob, pm sent.......

Percy Verance17/02/2018 20:41:09
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Bob, the second model in the Leaf line up is fitted with some sort of fancy heat source pump heater (whatever that might be), with models even further up the range having heated steering wheels etc. What the first model in the range is fitted with I'm not sure. A scarf and wooley hat perhaps?

Andrew76717/02/2018 21:16:06
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Percy....Regards servicing...Yes,Ev is cheaper because there is less to do.I pay £21 a month. Yes the brake pads need changing less frequently because you brake less using regen....As to resale values, i couldn't believe the comment about EV's being worth 50% of an I.c...That has to be a joke!!...Example..3yr old Outlander PHEV £17000..3yr old Outlander Diesel £10500..both cost the same when new. This was at a main dealer.

Bob, an Outlander might be just the vehicle for you. Have a look at the Mitsubishi website.

P.s Percy, i wonder how many people on this thread either own or have ever used an EV reading some of the comments.

Andrew........A happy PHEV owner!!

Percy Verance17/02/2018 21:33:01
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You said it Andrew. I've heard similar debates 40 years ago, when some folk derided cavity wall insulation and double glazing. They were usually the ones who didn't have it....

My boss at work has had a Mitsubishi PHEV for a couple of years now. He seems happy enough with it......  As I mentioned earlier, sales of new diesel cars have dropped 25% in the last few months. That surely must have an effect on used values. What you've said seems to bare this out..... Obviously those in the know whom were perhaps considering a new diesel car have heard about the possible new taxes on diesel car usage, along with considerable tightening of MOT testing regs for diesel vehicles......  I switched back to petrol two years ago after 24 years driving diesel. I just got this feeling in my water back then........ I'm currently on a Focus 1.0 Ecoboost, and it's an absolute quantum leap after the last petrol engine I sat behind ( Sierra 1.8). There's more power and torque, much better fuel consumption, plus it's far smoother and quieter than the Sierra was.

 

 

 

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 17/02/2018 22:03:13

Ikura17/02/2018 22:36:55
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Percy, car leasing is becoming very popular in the retail market and is potentially much bigger than the business sector. We lease two cars. One for business and my wife's Golf GTD is a personal lease. The lease is cheaper than the depreciation on buying a car and selling it after 2/3 years.

If you are happy to put your belief in electric cars then good for you and I really hope it works out for you. Personally it is not an option for me due to the limited range and charging options of electric cars.

Tell me how feasible it is to complete a 1/3 or 1/2 a journey and the queue up behind countless others waiting to get a slot to recharge the vehicle and then the charging process can take up to an hour. For it to work there has to be a huge surplus of charging points and that is not happening any time soon, if ever.

I also do not trust or believe that any UK government has the mental capacity or political will to sort out our national grid, and there is the elephant in the room.

It's all a grand idea but the car manufacturers are definitely only dipping their toes in the water with the development of electric cars. If they were truly serious they would be years ahead of where they are at the moment.

Andrew76717/02/2018 22:57:59
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Leasing is not becoming popular ......it is popular!!...More than 90% of new cars coming on to the roads are rented on PCPs and the cost of that PCP is entirely dependent on the resale value. Diesel values are collapsing and those rentals are not going to remain cheap. The only economical option ( whether you like it or not!!!) is to switch to EV,HEV or PHEV......

Andrew

Percy Verance18/02/2018 07:37:01
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With respect Ikura, you don't seem to be seeing the full picture. You see it as the motor manufacturers "dipping a toe" in the water. Well that's because we're in the relatively early stages of an evolutionary curve, so that's how it obviously looks to you. Why would all these huge global companies be investing so heavily if they felt it was simply going to be a flash in the pan? And what's this limited range? There are already 100% electric vehicles with ranges exceeding 200+ miles. Nissan themselves have stated that from 2019 their Leaf model's range will have a range of over 300 miles on a single charge. Just how far do you plan to drive in a single day? And that's just Nissan. Wait until you see what VW have up their sleeve. You'll see their offerings next year........

And it's unlikely to be the Government who *sort out* the electricity infrastructure. It'll come about as a result of major investment by those whom want to get in on the action. At some point in the next few years, the smart money will begin to switch from petroleum to renewables (it actually already is if you do some digging). Have you seen what's happening in Hull? Mega investment by Siemens in offshore wind turbines....... and they aren't doing it because they look nice. Either Siemens have got it wrong or you have!

http://www.siemens.co.uk/en/wind/hull.htm

Oh, and I was on holiday in Cornwall about 18 months ago. I hadn't been there for a few years, and was staggered to see field after field full of solar panels. Thousands of them. The electricity network is already being upgraded Ikura, you just don't seem to be aware of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 18/02/2018 08:05:47

Frank Skilbeck18/02/2018 08:25:42
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Posted by Bob Cotsford on 17/02/2018 19:56:53:

True Brian. Long winter journeys are the exception these days, at least for me they are. I wonder if the heater works instantly? That would be a real bonus at this time of yearlaugh

Never mind work instantly, you can st the heating to come on with a timer or via an app on your phone, so the car is pre-warmed up before you even leave the house, if it's plugged into the charger then it doesn't even use the battery.

BTW in Canada it's very common for regular cars to have an electric heater in the engine so it's instantly warm, hotels have sockets in car parking spaces so you can make sure your car does't take an age to defreeze.

Dave Hopkin18/02/2018 08:34:25
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At the risk of going off-topic... I saw an advert for the new leaf and it said it only ha ONE pedal

how the hell does that work.............. emergency braking????

Percy Verance18/02/2018 08:35:33
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Hi Frank. Many moons ago I worked with a chap who had been out in Canada working on a civil engineering project. He'd got married out there, and when he returned to the UK he brought both his Canadian wife and a Volvo car he'd bought out there back with him! I happened to be round at his place some time later, and noticed a lead with a plug dangling just under the front bumper of his Volvo. I pointed this out and mentioned that it might need fixing. He laughed and told me that you plugged it in when you parked anywhere in Alberta, to prevent the oil from freezing up. Minus 40 Frank!

And yes, now that you mention it I do recall reading about the smart heater settings Frank. I think Volvo are offering such a set up already on some of their cars.

Percy Verance18/02/2018 08:38:36
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Dave, I did wonder about that myself. Apparently it does work rather well I'm told. In fact I have read that among those motoring journalists whom have tried it, many have said it's brilliant! I believe the system - E Pedal - can be overridden/switched off for those whom aren't too keen.

Edited By Percy Verance on 18/02/2018 08:44:56

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