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Electric Cars.

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Percy Verance12/03/2018 20:28:34
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But remember Paul, after 2040 ( or whenever it was) there won't be any new i.c. engined cars offered for sale in the UK as they'll be prohibited, so it's difficult to imagine how they'll be seen as polluting. Other countries will implement this sooner I think.

Towing could indeed be a problem for those whom wish to. And I'm afraid I've no idea what you might do about it.

Perhaps one of the upcoming - in 2020 - VW electric Camper van jobs might fit the bill? The concept ought to work ok. After all, lots of campsites have electric hook-ups.

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 12/03/2018 20:35:05

Trevor Crook12/03/2018 21:41:35
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No reason towing should be a problem as battery energy density improves. Indeed, Tesla already offers a towing pack for the Model X, and luxury model features tend to work their way down to more humble models.

Paul, diesels used to be capable of very high mileages with minimal problems, but they used to be simpler. I'm guessing your Vectra is pre-2009 (I think the Insignia replaced it around then) so it is probably Euro 4. Current Euro 6 cars are much cleaner, but much more complex. Your Vectra may not have a DPF, so it could go on for ages yet.

Percy Verance12/03/2018 21:55:19
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Trevor

I imagine right now, those whom are involved in the development of EV's haven't given towing a great deal of consideration as the vast majority don't tow anything. Like you say, I'm sure the potential will evolve. Tesla already have a range of electric commercial vehicles in development along with full size articulated trucks undergoing testing. Volkwagen have a rage of 100% electric vehicles - codenamed I.D. - in the fairly late stages of development. These are planned to hit the market in a couple of years time, and commercial variants will be among them. It surely will only be a matter of time before the motorhome coachbuilding companies get started on those. Perhaps ultimately, towed caravans may become less popular over the next 15 to 20 years?

Tom Sharp 213/03/2018 02:07:16
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Do electric cars have heated seats, a basic necessity for an elderly gentleman like myself.

Percy Verance13/03/2018 05:34:04
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Yes Tom, some will/do have them as part of their standard specification. Others will undoubtedly offer them as an extra if you want them. The higher specified NIssan Leaf has both heated seats and steering wheel. And as already mentioned in the thread a while back, you can programme these to activate prior to the start of your journey if you wish.

Dave Bran13/03/2018 17:17:54
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All those in the comfortable rosy glow of buying electric and saving the planet, take note:-

**LINK**

And in particular the quote from it:- "Rare earth production is as bad as you can get in terms of environmental damage"

Nigel R13/03/2018 17:51:45
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"And I'm afraid I've no idea what you might do about it."

Fit really, really, really large batteries?

Paul Marsh13/03/2018 17:57:24
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My Vectra is a Euro 4, but has a Cat and a DPF filter - which every-now-and-then does it's clean cycle, and white smoke fills the street, until it finished. When I first got the car, I thought the engine had blown! Found on the internet that this is normal process...important no to turn the engine off until its finished - the DPF would get damaged,

Percy Verance13/03/2018 18:27:42
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You speak - with sarcasm - of the rosy glow of contemplating electric cars.

So, the use of fossil fuels over the past 100+ years has had no effect at all on the environment then?

Layer the sarcasm on, but electric cars are still going to happen. That's a fact.

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 13/03/2018 18:30:39

Nigel R13/03/2018 18:37:21
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Percy, only your tense is wrong, they are happening right now.

It's a stretch, but you might even say that they've already "happened" and we're now in the refinement stage.

Don Fry13/03/2018 18:50:32
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Why not an electric caravan, or any other trailer.Think about it, why not. The two units, tower and towee only have to talk to each other.

God, I hate predictive spell checkers.

Edited By Don Fry on 13/03/2018 18:51:39

Dave Bran14/03/2018 08:40:20
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Posted by Don Fry on 13/03/2018 18:50:32:

Why not an electric caravan, or any other trailer.Think about it, why not. The two units, tower and towee only have to talk to each other.

Yes, quite, with advantages like self parking, etc.

Dave Bran14/03/2018 08:50:52
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Posted by Nigel R on 13/03/2018 18:37:21:

Percy, only your tense is wrong, they are happening right now.

It's a stretch, but you might even say that they've already "happened" and we're now in the refinement stage.

It "happened" a long LONG time ago. MOST of the first Buses were electric powered. Until recently I regularly drove a Petrol Electric Hybrid dating from March 1914.

The issue is that people are blindly grasping the straw of electric traction for cars, and there is little or no "whole cycle" risk assessment being done. Manufacturers won't do this no more than will they prevent the spread of "crossover" vehicles that are too wide for most of our urban infrastructure and causing huge pollution increases, all they are interested in is selling product, pretty much ANY product (viz VW, etc).

I'm not anti-electric, I AM against the uncontrolled spread of a claimed saviour technology that has not even remotely been full cycle assessed.

Erfolg15/03/2018 10:23:32
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The discussion we are presently engaged in seems to be more about believe systems, less about certainties. History is full of false dawns, new innovations that were not in essence new. This conjecture seems to be equally attributable to electric vehicles. Some of the early cars were battery powered or even hybrids. An early Land Speed record holder was electric. the earliest Porsche was electric, in addition to a hybrid. There has been battery powered electric locomotives (used in marshalling yards). There are many examples, that are buried in history.

The change from both water and wind power from almost pre-history to the end of the 19th century into the steam era was not fast. Nor was the transition from steam to IC an over night event. Indeed the transitions have never been 100%. Perhaps what is different with electric vehicles the agenda is driven at present by environmentalists (with mixed motives, which seem diverse in there desired objectives) and governments. It can be argued that to a large extent previous changes have been driven by some definition of efficiency.. Although in Europe tax has to some degree reduced the take up of IC engines for road vehicles. It is perhaps perverse that at present tax concessions are being used to promote electric vehicles and penalise IC vehicles.

About a fortnight ago I was sitting at a roof top bar in Nashville, looking down at the river there and co-incidently a bus station and a very small railway station. I had noticed the previous day what I thought was an electric bus running about. Now I could see the vehicle, sitting under what appeared to be a large hood. It was there for about 15 minutes, before departing. Seeming to return in about 30-45 minutes. Where it again sat. I now was about through lunch and a few beers and departed. Looking up information on the service, I found it was Li-ion powered, that the route was 10 miles and that the battery was recharged after 10 minutes. I was not really impressed, I thought that a 100 mile journey would require something in the order of 100 minutes (1 hr 40min) of charging, either as part of the journey, or before something like another 100 miles. I thought and still think, that this is a practical experiment in can a public sevice vehicle fit into a real world service. In this case the bus was a free service.

I remember my farther explaining to me ( as child train spotter) that the demise of the steam train was due to two aspects, the first was the immediate availability of the Diesel or electric locomotive unit. In the case of the steam engine lighting the fire and generating enough steam The second was the high out of service time required to clear the fire grate and boiler chimney areas, then re-water and oil etc. At present similar issues seem to be present with electric buses.

Being a lover of trains I had to find out about the train, as I fancied a journey along the river bank by train. Again i was disappointed, as it only ran twice a day. Never achieving its projected passenger numbers and running at a significant loss, which has been saved by the state tax payers. An interesting line non the less.

Both are the subject so it appears of a power tussle, for those who want to expand the services and those who argue the Nashville is becoming Taxville. It is a complex argument, again driven by believes as much as facts.

Rich too15/03/2018 16:34:07
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I was quite ignorant to electric vehicles until recently (I believed the hype), then I started looking into buying one for a client - major issue, client does not have off street parking in Central London. This is such a basic requirement. It is not easy to get them installed on the street either.

What if you run out of juice on the m/way? How will the AA get you going? And if you break down in the middle of nowhere, run out of juice, you can’t just carry a can of electricity back to the car.

Motor and battery technology has improved greatly but charging is a massive problem, that I think will take a long time to overcome.

I C will be with us for a long time yet, even if just in hybrid cars.

Edited By Rich too on 15/03/2018 16:37:28

Percy Verance15/03/2018 16:54:42
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That depends on what you'd consider a long time to be. If the present Parliamentry group who've just kicked up a fuss get their way, we'll be bringing the ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel passenger cars forward by 10 years in order to fall in line with some other countries. Big changes ahead perhaps?

Running out of juice on the motorway is likely to become much less of an issue over the next 2 or 3 years Rich. National Grid recently announced a development plan to install EV charging stations at 50 "hotspots" on the UK motorway network. National Grid's ultimate aim is to have 90% of electric car drivers within 50 miles of a charge point wherever they might be. Many motorway service stations already have EV hook-ups. Indeed, the nearest M6 services to me has 8 EV charging stations. There are also several public EV hook-ups in the nearest town to me (5 miles away). If/when I buy an electric car ( probably a Nissan Leaf ) I'll charge it at home at least 90% of the time, and with 250+ mile range it'll be enough for a couple of weeks for me personally. And with EV development moving steadily, it won't be too long - maybe 5 years or so - before we see vastly increased range, with probably several times what we're currently (sorry) seeing. And in that 5 years, the curent (sorry again) UK electric vehicle charging network is projected to more than double. Remember Rich, we've been here before. When i.c. powered cars first hit the road, there were no petrol stations........but the filling station network grew because it needed to. 

In the last couple of weeks or so Rich, I had occasion to travel through the *touristy* part of the Lake District ( I normally try to avoid it as I live fairly close by) and I was surprised to see EV charge points in almost all the main car parks. On my return home, I specifically looked up where there might be other charging points and was pleasantly surprised to see many of the big hotels have them, along with a good number of smaller guest houses too.

Rich, where does the potential electric car client park his car at the moment? I ask just out of curiosity.

 

 

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 15/03/2018 17:14:00

Dave Bran15/03/2018 17:21:14
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Teething Trouble......................

**LINK**

Dave Bran15/03/2018 18:05:09
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So, lets assemble what we can from that incident.

The road which was being altered and was lane restricted was subject to a low 60k limit. It's unlikely the woman driver was speeding?

The car hit a barrier, no other vehicle involved, yet immolated completely, and the fire crew found it "difficult" to put out. Unsurprising when the batteries are buried underfloor.

Since its unclear when out is really out, there is a strong probability that emergency services are going to be slow to clear away such incidents (after all if it was YOUR tow away lorry would YOU load it on and fan it down the road?)

Deep joy...................

Percy Verance15/03/2018 18:07:21
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6481 forum posts
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So i.c. cars don't catch fire then Dave? Vauxhall Zafiras certainly do, there are a fair few instances of those going up.

I am actually beginning to wonder why you are spending time contributing to this thread. It just seems like it's negatives all the way, with not a grain of positivity anywhere. I just don't understand your agenda at all, but the impression I'm left with seems to be a desire to elicit confrontational replies. It certainly isn't why I spend time on here, so I'm left with little option but to hit the ignore button......

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 15/03/2018 18:14:32

Dave Bran15/03/2018 18:10:55
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1886 forum posts
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Teething Trouble 2....................................

**LINK**

In this case the car was speeding by report.

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