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Electric Cars.

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Geoff Sleath21/01/2018 20:22:23
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Paul, when I was a teenager in the 1950s I worked near London right by the A1. It was a single carriageway except where it passed DeHavillands in Hatfleld and I happily cycled along it on my old 3 speed hub gear pedal cycle to night school because it was so quiet in the evenings. I met and old chap who could remember when it was little more than a cart track (no cars at all., just horse drawn traffic) but look at it now. Dual carriageway, multi-lane all the way from the M25 north to Scotland. Times change and the rate of change is increasing.

Never say 'Won't happen' because it will, one way or another.

Geoff

Jez Saunders21/01/2018 20:25:28
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Reading these posts the biggest draw backs of batteries as we know them at this time are capacity to weight and charge times. If, when we overcome these then problems then who knows ?

Percy Verance21/01/2018 20:28:48
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And that is pretty much where the major development is happening Jez........... The first line of your post pretty much says it all.   

Advances in technology, not yet discovered, will be the key here. It's wandering off topic a bit, but what do you suppose Chistopher Columbus might have said if you'd shown him a nuclear powered submarine? 

Edited By Percy Verance on 21/01/2018 20:33:09

Trevor Crook21/01/2018 20:33:02
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This is interesting if you have 20 minutes spare:

https://youtu.be/9k7k3Mzknm8

My personal feeling is the infrastructure will gradually be put in place, and the price of EVs will fall until there is a tipping point when suddenly the sales of i.c. powered cars plummet. Shell are already installing EV charging points as a trial in some garages, and eventually if you run an old i.c. powered car you will have much more difficulty finding somewhere to sell you fuel for it.

The range issue is on the brink of being solved, prices continue to fall, the main obstacles to mass adoption will be the charging time and charging infrastructure, but who can predict what we will have in 10 years?

Don Fry21/01/2018 20:33:59
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Load of cash to the winner. And Ford, not much mentioned in the race, I read this week, have a billion dollars in their electrification, driverless war chest. That is a lot of directors bonus payments.

Percy Verance21/01/2018 20:34:42
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Exactly Trevor.... yes

And yes Trevor, at some point I see i.c. car ownership becoming very costly as places to buy fuel eventually diminish. The cost of petrol will, without a doubt increase due to the much reduced volumes required for far fewer users. I think we might see this impacting before the next ten years is up.

The charging infrastructure point is a good one. A couple of years back I spent a week in Cornwall visiting relatives, and on my travels was quite surprised to see field after field of solar panels. They were not there on my last visit about 5 years back, so someone is obviously anticipating much greater demand. I have actually had my house recently re-roofed, and I'm seriously considering festooning it with solar panels....... Incidentally, my boss at work drives one of those Mitsubishi PHEV electric SUV's, and has had a charging point installed in the wall right outside his office..........

 

 

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 21/01/2018 20:55:07

Jez Saunders21/01/2018 20:57:33
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Hybred cars of course will still have their place for a while, in the urban enviroment they will have benifits if operated on electric and ic on long motorway hauls were they are running more efficiently. There will be even lower emmisions to this type of car also with improvements to the battery technology ie charging times reduced from running in ic mode.

Mark Kettle 121/01/2018 20:57:52
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Hi Trevor here's a better link to your video.

 

 
 
Hi Geoff Sleath - All that talk about the A1 from years ago, got me thinking Geoff and I know off a video of the A1 from London to Grantham - from those days of old you talk about.
 
I work most days on that stretch of A1, the firm I work for started in 1926 and is based in Oakham. The son of the firm is still alive and in his 90's. When I shown him the film and it bought back many memories of the road to him, when he drove for his mum and dad.
 
 
 
 

 

Edited By Mark Kettle 1 on 21/01/2018 21:02:29

Trevor Crook21/01/2018 21:00:02
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Just checked some figures - last year renewables accounted for 29% of our electricity, nuclear 21%. Coal was 7%, gas 40%. Not sure where the other 3% came from! Wind farms generated twice as much as coal over the year, and solar exceeded coal for 182 days. All this from the Financial Times.

It's a shame the government doesn't mandate solar panels on the roofs of all suitable new builds, together with storage batteries. This would add only a couple of percent to the average price of a house in my neck of the woods. A friend has 6kW panels on his roof, and doesn't use any gas in the summer, as his panels heat his hot water via an immersion heater. He also makes money from his feed-in tarrif. Regarding cars, if these panels generated 2kW for 8 hours, the resulting 16kWh could give an electric car 64 miles worth of range - EVs seem to achieve around 4 miles per kWh. If the average annual mileage is 10k, that's about 30 miles a day, so with storage batteries to save the daytime generated power, enabling overnight charging, many people could run their car with zero fuel cost and carbon emissions.

Percy Verance21/01/2018 21:06:25
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There is a chap in the next village near me whom has lots of solar panels on his bungalow roof. After chatting to him a couple of Summers back, he says that on a good sunny day his electric meter runs in reverse! Nice. The thought of actually being bill free, and even seeing a return occasionally, is what has prompted me to consider panels myself. The snag is that I'm not sure I'll live long enough to see my money back, as I'm in my 60's now.........

Edited By Percy Verance on 21/01/2018 21:09:04

Trevor Crook21/01/2018 21:11:53
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Percy, I agree with your estimate of timescale. I think it will all happen way before the 2040 time imposed by the government.

I quite fancy a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV myself. The electric range is officially 30 miles, probably nearer 20 in real life, which would get me to and from either of my flying sites. Plenty of room for models, too! The problem with hybrids is, as they have two means of power, there is an awful lot there to go wrong as the car gets older. Having said that, apparently there are many Prius taxis out there that have covered six-figure mileages without major failure.

Percy Verance21/01/2018 21:23:31
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Hi again Trevor. John's (my boss) example is about two years old, and having had it from new I have been asking about it's progress occasionally. It hasn't been without it's (minor) issues, but he likes it a lot and will have another. His has a 2 litre petrol engine in addition to the electric motor. The Toyota Prius is a reliable car, as are all Toyotas. My near 80 year old father in-law is a huge RAV 4 fan, having had five in the last 25 odd years. He buys the petrol automatic versions, having zero interest in diesel. He only covers about 5000 miles per year, so the mpg (or lack of it) isn't really an issue for him. His last one was a snip for someone. 11 reg plate with 27000 miles on the clock. Hardly a mark on it....... His current one is 16 reg, grey with big black alloy wheels and a body kit. It looks a bit like Darth Vader's car, and hardly the transport of a slightly built 78 year old.......but he likes it because all his fishing gear fits in nicely.

 

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 21/01/2018 21:53:55

Geoff Sleath21/01/2018 21:43:14
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Mark Kettle: What a great film! Obviously my use of the A1 wasn't until around 1957 (I was born in 1940) but it really hadn't changed that much as there were few changes during and just after the war. A lot of the cars were still running when I used it. I liked that the guy filming didn't bother to pull his car ( a Studebaker?) off the road despite there being adequate space to do so.

I knew someone who happened to be visiting Stamford on the day they opened the by-pass and he said the sudden loss of traffic was remarkable. I bought my last racing dinghy, a Laser, in Stilton and I knew Stevenage quite well in the 50s and 60s (I worked at ICT for a while) but it had changed a lot by then because of London over-spill. I think recognised a stretch near to old Welwyn near Lemsford on the road to Stevenage.

Thanks for posting.

Geoff

Mark Kettle 121/01/2018 21:51:33
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yes

ChrisB21/01/2018 22:10:57
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Two points from me on this.

Firstly, us modellers shouldn't encourage in land/onshore wind turbines, as I know of several clubs who have suffered as a result and we shouldn't encourage solar farms for the same reason.

In terms of air pollution, according to a piece on Radio 4 a few weeks ago, around 50% of air pollution from vehicles comes from brakes and tyres. People seem to use their brakes far more these days.(those dotted lines at a junction have catch nets apparently) and people don't drive to save tyre wear. Electric vehicles won't solve this problem.

Just look at the dust on your wheels after a few weeks and although we can't see it, the debris from tyre wear...similar to that of the marbles on an F1 track at the end of the race.

Finally there is the total life cost of an electric vehicle, not really any more planet saving than any other vehicle with mineral extraction, shipping, energy generation and disposal.

john stones 121/01/2018 22:36:28
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Bigger things at stake than us model flyers Chris, I doubt the worlds gonna stop for us.

ChrisB21/01/2018 22:52:12
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I don’t suppose it will John but still, I hate the thought of our farmer filling his fields with solar panels as that would stop us flying completely. At least crops can be overflown.

Tom Thomas22/01/2018 05:01:45
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Posted by ChrisB on 21/01/2018 22:52:12:

I don’t suppose it will John but still, I hate the thought of our farmer filling his fields with solar panels as that would stop us flying completely. At least crops can be overflown.

Can't believe you are being serious with that statement.

Selfishness is ugly.

Tom Thomas22/01/2018 05:04:59
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It's funny isn't it, how we pick and choose our reasons for the better.

Stop smoking..... etc.... cancer causing.... etc.... stopped from smoking in pubs..... etc... yet, drive a car, either petrol or diesel? .....well let's just ignore that hey frown

Percy Verance22/01/2018 06:47:38
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8108 forum posts
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One thing is for certain, that being the pace of change. Not all that change brings will suit everyone. Such as was mentioned earlier regarding towing a caravan. Somehow I don't imagine being able to tow was very far up the list of considerations of those whom are involved in bringing about the changes new technology will introduce. Likewise, we as model flyers will probably need to evolve. Perhaps even flying alternative types of model in different locations out of necessity......... And yes Tom, I see challenges ahead for chain smoking, beer swilling individuals whom perhaps might like to tow a caravan with a smokey old V6 engined vehicle........Change we will though because we'll have​ to. 

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 22/01/2018 06:55:05

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