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Electric Cars.

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Tom Sharp 222/04/2018 21:20:11
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3018 forum posts
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Approaching 79, I just hope that I live long enough to need to make a decision as to my next form of car propulsion system. cool

Percy Verance22/04/2018 21:29:20
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6730 forum posts
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Worry not Tom. I have a 90 year old pal whom regularly books holidays months in advance.......

Tom Sharp 222/04/2018 21:33:38
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3018 forum posts
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Posted by Percy Verance on 22/04/2018 21:29:20:

Worry not Tom. I have a 90 year old pal whom regularly books holidays months in advance.......

smiley yes

Percy Verance22/04/2018 21:41:58
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6730 forum posts
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Some hydogen related info here.... www.driving.co.uk/news/the-future-of-hydrogen-filing-stations-in-britain/

IDD1522/04/2018 22:43:30
65 forum posts

Re Tebay

Could not agree with you all more, the selection of pies in the Deli was fabulous. It is also one of the few places I have found damson jam!

Re Lake district passes

Great idea! Last time I drove them it was in a Mini Metro and it was hard work.

Re My EV journey

It was never a properly planned journey more a series of events over time really. A friend got a Prius a few years ago and it was really interesting learning about it. However as clever as the Prius is the fact that you had two propulsion systems and two energy systems in one car has always sat uncomfortably with me. Funnily enough we were out with him yesterday in his new Mitsubishi PHEV. Very, very impressive I have to say.

Then I heard about some start up called Tesla creating an electric sports car. Shortly after that I nearly stepped in front of one in Monte Carlo whilst working over there on a project for an oil company! I loved the quiet under stated performance as it zipped away, but not the price. For me though it kind of sowed the seed that an electric car was in my future, provided I could avoid being run over!

Step forward 4 years or so and I worked briefly with a lady who was utterly besotted with her Nissan Leaf! Shortly after that my employer at the time got some employee deal whereby you got £400 cash back through Nissan if you leased a Leaf. So we went for a test drive, were hooked and the rest is history.

Underlying all this is a professional interest in things electrical and the surrounding environmental issues. As Erf rightly points out there has to be a genuine gain else it is not worth it. I think there is a gain to be had with EV's and PHEV's

idd

Percy Verance23/04/2018 06:45:52
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6730 forum posts
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IDD

If you're ever passing J36 on the M6, then you're just 15 minutes or so from the Lyth Valley, where damsons grow in proliferation. There are numerous little roadside stalls outside smallholdings etc, all selling local produce and home made damson jam! I'm not sure, but some may offer mail order.

I actually had a damson tree in my garden when we moved here 4 1/2 years ago, but we removed it to improve our outlook over the fields beyond.... my neighbour still has his though.

I'm 99.9% certain a Leaf would now meet my motoring requirments. Since I no longer work full time I drive about 130 miles a week (some weeks it's less) and longer journeys are now a rarity. Most of that 130 miles is driving into/around our nearest town for shopping and other essentials. I also very much like the thought that I can harness the sun's rays and store the energy, using it to recharge the car. Of course it'll cost me several thousands of pounds to get to that position, but once it's all installed it'll see me out I hope. It'll also mean I can hopefully sell some surplus electricity back to the grid, reducing my overall costs. And of course once I've got a Leaf I'd look into the OVO Energy deal they're offering Leaf owners too, although hopefully I'd be less likely to rely on that.

Driving a MIni Metro was hard work anyway. I was lent one as a courtesy car when I took my Maestro (we all make mistakes) for a service. That car was an unspeakable pile of rubbish. I traded it in at 4k miles because I couldn't put up with the faults any longer. It's replacement was a Golf, which was another world as far as quality goes......

 

 

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 23/04/2018 07:02:15

Trevor Crook23/04/2018 07:11:29
681 forum posts
50 photos

Yes, I'm in a similar situation Percy, retired and mostly covering short distances, most importantly to my club flying sites which are both about 10 miles away! I have the further luxury that we have to run two cars at the moment, so we could keep one i.c. powered for long trips if we have misgivings about the charging network. At the moment EVs certainly aren't for everyone, you have to carefully consider how you use a car before buying. Cost is also an issue of course, although there are now original Leafs for sale in Autotrader for less than £7k, battery included. These would be great as a cheap second car for local runs, although you'd have to check the battery capacity guage showed all 12 bars before buying.

David Tayler23/04/2018 09:25:32
73 forum posts

I have had a Leaf for 3and a half years now, It is fantastic to drive,all the torque at low speeds ,incredibly quiet and very economical.We use economy severn and our solar pannels. The servicing costs are low as is the insurance if one shops around.Amazingly some companies don't do electric cars! We do though have a deisel for long runs. Try one and you may be hooked.

GrahamC23/04/2018 11:53:44
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1222 forum posts
196 photos

 

Posted by David Tayler on 23/04/2018 09:25:32:

I have had a Leaf for 3and a half years now, It is fantastic to drive,all the torque at low speeds ,incredibly quiet and very economical.We use economy severn and our solar pannels. The servicing costs are low as is the insurance if one shops around.Amazingly some companies don't do electric cars! We do though have a deisel for long runs. Try one and you may be hooked.

We have one too.... Cheaper to buy, own and run than the 10 year old Scenic it replaced was to own and run.

Great to drive - masses of torque in town... We also have a diesel car that we would use for the longer journeys... but for 80% of what we do the Leaf is fine - and much more enjoyable to drive.

Now what would be great would be a way of utilising the drive battery to charge my Lipos at the flying field! 

Edited By GrahamC on 23/04/2018 11:55:31

Dickw23/04/2018 12:20:37
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326 forum posts
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Posted by GrahamC on 23/04/2018 11:53:44:..........

Now what would be great would be a way of utilising the drive battery to charge my Lipos at the flying field!

Edited By GrahamC on 23/04/2018 11:55:31

Doesn't it have a 12v socket somewhere? An essential item for any car I have for miscellaneous recharging.

Dick

Percy Verance23/04/2018 13:42:05
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6730 forum posts
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Luckily Trevor I don't drive nearly as far as you to my flying site. My journey is all of about 1 1/2 miles, just on the fringes of the village. We are restricted to electric flying only at this particular site, as the landowner also has a static caravan site with about 30 pitches, behind a copse of trees a few hundred metres away... The landowner is sympathetic to our cause, as he has several electric models himself although he doesn't get very much opportunity to fly.

Frank Skilbeck23/04/2018 13:57:09
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4038 forum posts
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Posted by Dickw on 23/04/2018 12:20:37:
Posted by GrahamC on 23/04/2018 11:53:44:..........

Now what would be great would be a way of utilising the drive battery to charge my Lipos at the flying field!

Edited By GrahamC on 23/04/2018 11:55:31

Doesn't it have a 12v socket somewhere? An essential item for any car I have for miscellaneous recharging.

Dick

It's hidden in the center console smile d

Cuban823/04/2018 13:59:15
2029 forum posts
3 photos

Quite a lengthy discussion on my local radio station this morning about 'leccy cars. A chap phoned in an explained that he collected cars from around the country for a dealer network, and on Saturday during his trip back from the west country he counted five Teslas queuing for the charging area at a service station..................crying

Rich too23/04/2018 14:01:02
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2725 forum posts
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I also very much like the thought that I can harness the sun's rays and store the energy, using it to recharge the car. Of course it'll cost me several thousands of pounds to get to that position, but once it's all installed it'll see me out I hope. It'll also mean I can hopefully sell some surplus electricity back to the grid, reducing my overall costs.

Edited By Percy Verance on 23/04/2018 07:02:15

I like the thought too, but you'll never get your money back.

Interesting that you EV guys have diesels for long journeys! wink

Rich too23/04/2018 14:28:14
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2725 forum posts
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Posted by Percy Verance on 22/04/2018 19:51:15:

When I eventually go electric I'll be looking to go the solar panel/energy storage route, conveniently sidestepping the need to use a mains supply to charge up........at least for my local motoring. I'd also be looking to sell any surplus electricty back to the grid.

Edited By Percy Verance on 22/04/2018 20:17:20

Have you checked the figures? I looked into solar panels, and it was estimated to take 20 years to break even! Same thing with my 30 year old boiler - just not worth the expense of replacement.

Erfolg23/04/2018 14:50:56
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10929 forum posts
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Some suggest that hydrogen powered vehicles of any type are dangerous. Often referencing the Hindenburg.

In my early youth, I became aware the Turbo Generators that the business that I worked in were Hydrogen cooled. A little later i worked on a gas rig that was developing some aspects of hydrogen cooling.

It was explained to me that hydrogen had many great properties, in that it had excellent heat transfer properties, low density, the absence of oxygen meant that Corona discharges were much reduced. In practical terms that meant that the generator could be made much smaller and more economical.

There was a down side, in that Hydrogen due to its atomic number/atom size, tends to see most materials as porous. From memory aluminium was a preferred material to limit losses. Although its ignition range was said to be large, its explosive range was deemed to small. That flames went up, due to its properties and on ignition the heat issues were often less of a concern than an oil fire.

I understood back then in the 60s that most hydrogen was obtained from Petrochemical Industry via a steam process. Electrolysis would seem attractive in conjunction with atomic power generation, although I suspect that the nuclear route is going out of favour?

Although a hydrogen based economy seems great, in that on combustion (with oxygen) we end up with water, it is the production process that seems a bit of an issue in an environmentalist no oil economy.

I cannot forget although propane on a cost grounds seemed great for many vehicles, the wide spread use of the gas never seemed to become attractive. Perhaps that a large tank was needed, in addition to the now redundant Petrol/diesel tank. It could have been the limited refuelling points. Or the benefits relative to the conversion costs were just unattractive. I suspect that Hydrogen power will have similar issues.

Nigel R23/04/2018 14:59:18
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"Perhaps that a large tank was needed, in addition to the now redundant Petrol/diesel tank. It could have been the limited refuelling points. Or the benefits relative to the conversion costs were just unattractive."

Propane is pretty good if your travelling is mainly long distance, and your country has a reasonable network of filling stations, and hasn't decided to taxed it very highly. Mainly short distances - little point, the engine runs petrol during warm up. And in winter the warm up is extended of course.

This is first hand from a friend who bought a pre-converted car; in his case the spare wheel had been replaced. He did a fair amount of trips involving Netherlands - England, so the long distance bit was quite useful. He found most winter local commutes were entirely petrol. Summer commutes were about half/half for him.

Regarding hydrogen, my opinion is that it appears common sense has prevailed and the main thrust is toward electric propulsion.

Percy Verance23/04/2018 14:59:58
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6730 forum posts
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20 years to break even compared to what exactly? I intend to sell electricity back to the grid after using what I need. I also won't be using any direct mains input to charge the car, so the way I see it, it's saving me money from day one. I'll also be looking to participate in an energy return scheme once these are more widely available in the UK. Many EV owners in Norway take part in such schemes, and earn themselves the equivalent of £30 per week, selling energy back to the grid from their EV's, still leaving sufficient for their daily needs..... Of course if you're still not convinced, you could get a nice hydrogen fuelled car and spend countless hours driving around looking for one of the nine refuelling sites with public access there are in the whole of the UK.

I have replaced my central heating boiler in 2016. The new Worcester Bosch boiler is using considerably less gas than the old boiler. The previous owners of the house were paying about £130 month for gas. I'm paying £82 per month. That said, it may not all be down to the boiler. I've had the property re-roofed, and had Kingspan fixed in between the roof joists for additional insulation. I also have cavity wall and under floor insulation.

Propane is a non starter from the environmental point of view Nigel. The sheer amont of pollution produced during the refining process makes it a no go-er.

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 23/04/2018 15:05:46

Nigel R23/04/2018 15:03:00
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1394 forum posts
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"Of course it'll cost me several thousands of pounds to get to that position, but once it's all installed it'll see me out I hope. It'll also mean I can hopefully sell some surplus electricity back to the grid, reducing my overall costs"

You may want to re-do your sums there Percy.

Local friend has panels installed, just before the second tier subsidy was stopped. It was worth it for them then. But they also knew someone working at a company doing the installs. With the current subsidy, they reckon it would not have been worth it.

YMMV according to size of roof, panel, angle, amount of sun, etc.

Percy Verance23/04/2018 15:08:53
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6730 forum posts
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Nigel

I have my ear to the ground re: the subsidies etc.

Lets just say if I get solar panels, I won't be paying what others might pay to get them... wink

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