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Electric Cars.

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Don Fry23/04/2019 19:40:14
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Posted by Nigel R on 23/04/2019 14:44:10:

" There is a German based company whom have battery technology under development which is free from materials such as lithium. They also claim that it will offer a considerable saving in weight, plus an increase in capacity over present battery systems. They have stated that it is 4 to 5 years from production."

**LINK**

Your German battery is the latest entry in post #1, I think?

So you didn't get an answer, just a lateral shift.

Peter Christy29/04/2019 09:12:46
1554 forum posts

Interesting article on how electric cars emit more CO2 than diseasels here:

German study

That takes into consideration manufacture and mining for all the rare materials used.

Makes me feel quite smug about keeping a 48 year old car on the road! wink

--

Pete

Nigel R29/04/2019 11:03:57
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Pete, that's the most environmentally friendly option available, I think, keep the old units running! Sadly not so attractive to any large manufacturer.

It's only one study but the result is not especially surprising.

However the picture may shift somewhat, and become clearly in favour of electric, if battery cell lifespan is extended with newer technologies or processes. Which I believe is currently the focus of a lot of research.

Frank Skilbeck29/04/2019 11:50:18
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Yes but they conveniently forgot the emissions during oil production, transportation and refining which are estimated to add between 15-40% of CO2 emissions from using hydrocarbons. So if you car is rated at 120 mg/km tailpipe emissions then this is really 140 to 200 mg/km. Plus they look at electricity generation in Germany of which coal is still a large proportion.

Maybe I should have kept my old Yamaha 350 2 stroke twin to be environmentally friendly.

Piers Bowlan29/04/2019 13:31:40
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- 'Electricity generation in Germany of which coal is still a large proportion' It is not just a case of still but following Merkels commitment to close all its nuclear power stations by 2022, Germany is busily building lots of new ones! Nothing to do with the fact that Germany has huge coal reserves with heaps of cheap coal from neighbouring Poland too.

Edited By Piers Bowlan on 29/04/2019 13:34:20

Percy Verance29/04/2019 13:39:22
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Polish coal has been arriving in the UK for a fair length of time Piers - possibly 20 years plus . It was one of the things that got Arthur hot under the collar .......

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 29/04/2019 13:45:37

Trevor Crook29/04/2019 14:09:53
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Peter, the other comment is right - fossil fuel advocates always omit the amount of emissions and environmental damage that extracting, refining and transporting oil products causes.

Interestingly, the world's largest battery is being constructed in Texas. It will be charged by a solar array and will be used to power their oil production facilities! Ironically, it's much cheaper than powering it with oil or gas.

ken anderson.29/04/2019 15:38:08
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75% of China's leccy is generated from coal fired stations....bet their not in a hurry to swap....

Ken Anderson...ne...1 .. generating dept.

Percy Verance29/04/2019 15:54:25
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And yet Ken China produces most of the solar panels currently available on the market. They're also allegedly big on solar powered water heating in domestic situations. And they're the world's fastest growing market for electric vehicles.

XBit of info here Ken..... https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jan/06/china-cementing-global-dominance-of-renewable-energy-and-technology

 

And yes, it surprised me too.......

 

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 29/04/2019 16:06:22

Piers Bowlan29/04/2019 17:12:31
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Posted by Percy Verance on 29/04/2019 13:39:22:

Polish coal has been arriving in the UK for a fair length of time Piers - possibly 20 years plus . It was one of the things that got Arthur hot under the collar .......

My point Percy was that Germany is building new coal fired power stations whilst Britain is closing the last of theirs.

Frank Skilbeck29/04/2019 17:36:03
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Posted by Piers Bowlan on 29/04/2019 17:12:31:
Posted by Percy Verance on 29/04/2019 13:39:22:

Polish coal has been arriving in the UK for a fair length of time Piers - possibly 20 years plus . It was one of the things that got Arthur hot under the collar .......

My point Percy was that Germany is building new coal fired power stations whilst Britain is closing the last of theirs.

**LINK**

Percy Verance29/04/2019 17:45:23
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We seem to be moving more towards renewable energy in the UK. It's anticipated that 70% (or more) of the UK's energy will be from renewable sources by 2030.

Indeed, I went for a bit of wander round the lanes near my village recently and spotted a whole field full of solar panels. They weren't there a few weeks ago. There must have been at least 200 or so. I imagine the farmer gets a nice return ( approx 15 to 20K annually I believe). Must be easier than farming......and he still had some sheep in there.

Peter Christy29/04/2019 17:52:58
1554 forum posts

We nearly lost our flying site a couple of years ago, to solar panels! Luckily, the council decided that there were already plenty of solar farms in the area (there are!) and refused planning permission.

--

Pete

Toni Reynaud29/04/2019 18:21:45
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As an aside, this website provides a look at how power is generated in the UK. Gridwatch

Edited By Toni Reynaud on 29/04/2019 18:22:01

Don Fry29/04/2019 18:23:37
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Three points.

Germany does coal because under EU regulations, a country can subsidise one fuel source. Germany does coal. One Margaret Thatcher chose to do nuclear after the miners strike.

Re solar panels, they use a rare earth element, China has banned its export in other than "processed forms" i.e. Panels. There is not much in the rest of the world, hence no non Chinese panels.

And I read, this week, Volkswagen, source of information, reckon that, total emission, over the lifetime of product, has tipped in favour of EV vehicles.

I make no comment on the points.

Percy Verance29/04/2019 19:06:57
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Peter

Re: the solar panels I saw. I don't actually know if the farmer owns the panels, or whether they've been installed and he gets his payout annually. It might make sense for some farms to go solar, as I once had a brief chat with the farmer at our former flying site, and at that time - a few years back - he said then they could easily use £500 to £600 of electricity per week........

That made me feel good. I usually use less than £10 worth per week......

Edited By Percy Verance on 29/04/2019 19:16:11

Peter Christy29/04/2019 19:49:08
1554 forum posts
Posted by Don Fry on 29/04/2019 18:23:37:

And I read, this week, Volkswagen, source of information, reckon that, total emission, over the lifetime of product, has tipped in favour of EV vehicles.

Hmm! Volkswagen! Aren't they the ones caught "massaging" the diesel figures? (Tongue firmly in cheek!)

--

Pete

Percy Verance29/04/2019 20:39:59
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They weren't the only ones either if I recall correctly Peter. BMW, Mitsubishi and others were also giving it a whirl

Tom Sharp 230/04/2019 00:39:08
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Our club lost it's field to solar panels a couple of years back.

Piers Bowlan30/04/2019 05:40:40
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Posted by Frank Skilbeck on 29/04/2019 17:36:03:
Posted by Piers Bowlan on 29/04/2019 17:12:31:
Posted by Percy Verance on 29/04/2019 13:39:22:

Polish coal has been arriving in the UK for a fair length of time Piers - possibly 20 years plus . It was one of the things that got Arthur hot under the collar .......

My point Percy was that Germany is building new coal fired power stations whilst Britain is closing the last of theirs.

**LINK**

Thanks for that Frank, looks like they have seen the light at last. At least they will all be gone by 2038! At the end of 2018 40% of German power production was from burning coal, 5% for the UK. The Germans have opened 27 new coal fired power stations in the last 12 years. Lignite;- nasty polluting brown coal (like burning peat).

Edited By Piers Bowlan on 30/04/2019 05:56:19

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