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Electric Cars.

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Andrew76708/07/2019 17:18:23
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Posted by Andy Meade on 08/07/2019 11:33:09:

Our Mitsubishi PHEV charges from a 13A socket, from empty to full in 4 hours. This gets us 40 miles in the summer, easily enough for the other half's daily commute. We get a reduced rate through our energy supplier for charging at off peak times, and when she's at work the charger there is free. £45 petrol lasts 1600 miles, and it costs £1.75 to charge to full at home. Long trips aren't a problem, as we use the petrol generator then, and have stopped at services to charge to 90% in about 40 minutes from the fast chargers (some will cost, some don't). Enough time for a coffee and toilet break.

The PHEV has a huge boot, even more so with the back seats forward, goes like stink when you floor it, and even recharges the battery through kinetic energy recovery when breaking. We love it, and are sure that we'll replace it with another when the time comes, and no doubt mine will be electric too when I get around to changing mine.

It's the future.

Thats impressive Andy...40mls. Is yours the 2.4ltr version with the bigger battery?

Best i've ever managed is 30 in summer and around 25 in winter. Had mine for two years so it's the older 2.0 ltr generator . Regen saves on the brake pads too!!

Andrew

Bruce Collinson08/07/2019 17:18:43
384 forum posts

Percy, if he was less sanctimonious he would have bought the hybrid but he allowed his dubious priorities to countermand common sense.

GM, I'm with you.

Wingman08/07/2019 18:43:42
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@DickW - thankyou that's exactly what I was asking for - looks like you can't take your family on holiday with an electric car yet a while - strictly for town puttering only.

IDD1508/07/2019 18:50:27
123 forum posts
Posted by Wingman on 07/07/2019 21:52:22:

It's the range thing that always bothers me about electric cars.

I recently drove 450 miles which took me about 8 hours where I stopped once for fuel, twice for 'comfort' and once for 30 minutes for lunch. I travelled at 80 mph where possible.

I was wondering if anybody on here has done a similar sort of distance in an electric vehicle and, if so, would they like to share their journey details so I can get some sort of idea how that sort of range is covered electrically.

Have not done 450miles in my 30KW Leaf but that sort of distance would be no problem for a 60KW Niro/Kona with one possibly two fast recharges of 30 to 40 minutes.

Did S Manchester to Watford last year to visit the Harry Potter Studio Tour in the Leaf. Four adults, air conditioning on (very hot days) and two fast charges each way. About 360 miles in total with an overnight stop. Cost about £9 for the charges I seem to remember, but I did get lucky with a "free vend" at one pump!

The Leaf is a little light on range, we reckon a 40KWh battery is the way to go for us as that extra half hour or so of distance would neatly tie in with wanting to have a break from driving.

It is funny reading this thread though, in its early days 200 miles was seen as the minimum range, now its at least 300!!! Some people clearly have quite remarkable kidneys.

Joking aside it is important to really honestly analyse your journeys as to what you really do before buying a BEV. If you don't you could wind up spending an awful lot of money on a battery you don't really need. The charging situation is rapidly improving now and will get better. Better a 30 minute charge on that one long journey once a year than forking out another £5K on the car methinks.

idd

IDD1508/07/2019 19:02:25
123 forum posts
Posted by Wingman on 08/07/2019 18:43:42:

@DickW - thankyou that's exactly what I was asking for - looks like you can't take your family on holiday with an electric car yet a while - strictly for town puttering only.

Wrong, wrong, wrong! Why are you taking anecdotal evidence from someone who does not drive an EV!!! ???

Please see my answer above.

If you are going on holiday you need to be very aware of what charging facilities there are at your destination. If your going to Scotland not a problem. Going to SW Wales forget the BEV and pack an ICE. Always remember Zap Map is your friend

idd

Percy Verance08/07/2019 19:17:27
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IDD

I've met people whom are firmly of the belief that an EV's battery is goosed after 5 years, that it isn't possible to drive/use an EV in winter because of the cold. Another one is you can't use the radio because you'll flatten the battery and leave yourself stranded etc....

Norway has one of highest take-up rates of EV's anywhere in Europe, and Norway isn't famed for it's tropical climate.

Yes, the misconceptions are alive and well IDD..........

Perhaps Wingman ought to watch some of EVM's videos on YouTube. He often drives on fairly lengthy journeys in the Leaf he has (his second), and he usually documents the whole trip for the benefit of the curious......He drives 20k miles per year without issue..... and it ain't all pottering round town either.

 

 

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 08/07/2019 19:23:56

IDD1508/07/2019 20:33:21
123 forum posts

Percy

Quite agree about EVM's Youtube channel, tells it like it is warts and all!

Can't quite understand why some people have to be so negative all the time on this thread. We are starting to see some real innovation now in transport which ultimately will benefit them, the consumer. Will the answer be fuel cells, batteries, hydrogen, hybrids, robo taxies, scooters, ebikes, solar or nuclear? Don't know and don't really care so long as it is better than what has gone before and travelling becomes pleasurable again and not a chore.

idd

Percy Verance08/07/2019 20:53:38
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8109 forum posts
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I'd agree with most of what you say IDD, although I'm unsure regarding the last few words. I can't ever see a great deal of pleasure in driving anymore. It's a necessary evil and that's about it I reckon. Having said that, the tourist trail from John 'O Groats to Ullapool - about 175 miles - is a pleasant enough drive. It's quite possible to go an hour without seeing another car on the road with you. The scenery is absolutely spectacular too......

P.S. Let them be negative IDD, the electric bandwagon will continue to roll on regardless..... Fewer and fewer newly developed i.c. cars will be marketed, and at some point their sales will begin to show a decline. About 5 to 7 years I reckon, possibly even a little sooner.

 

 

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 08/07/2019 21:11:34

Tony Richardson08/07/2019 22:26:50
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I understand the trend toward electric cars and here in Canada they are on the rise in popularity, that said it is only in the cities and here on the island that it is really taking off.

I have a large car - V6 - that gets approx 35miles per gallon hwy mileage, my daughter lives 1500 miles to the east of us and when we visit it is quite the road trip, I would not want to stop that many times to charge my car, it takes three days of steady driving as it is and about a third of that is through the Rocky Mountains not practical in that situation.. I don't know how cold it gets in Norway but temps drop into the -25c -35c range in Winnipeg in the winter and most -not all - car owners have an electric powered battery blanket installed along with an engine block heater so their battery has more cranking power on a cold morning, i'm wondering how temps in this range affect the batteries in fully electric cars? On the other hand here in the warmer winter climate of the west coast electric does well. Tesla has set up a lot of charging stations and their cars sell well here but they are not affordable for everyone.

The leaf does really well here as does the Chevy volt and of course the Toyotas and other imports, for me being limited to one car total electric is just not practical at the moment, so I guess i'm stuck with my 17 year old gas guzzler for a while yet, maybe when they fully develop the glass battery or some other form of energy retention it will change for me but at 71 i may not see it, who knows look at the transition from Ni-Cad to Li-Po happened very quickly, fascinating times ahead of us.

 

Edited By Tony Richardson on 08/07/2019 22:30:18

Trevor Crook09/07/2019 08:11:14
838 forum posts
65 photos

I read a BBC report the other day which described a forthcoming unmanned space mission to Saturn's large moon, Titan. Since there is an atmosphere, the exploring vehicle will be a rotorcraft - gravity there is less than here, and atmospheric pressure is greater, so ideal for flying. However, since the temperature is around -170C it will be interesting to find out what exotic power source they will use!

ceejay09/07/2019 09:09:03
412 forum posts
322 photos

what do you tow a large 15ft long modelling trailer or my folding camper with (700kgs 14ft), any out there doing so??

cp

Nigel R09/07/2019 10:51:29
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2985 forum posts
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"i'm wondering how temps in this range affect the batteries in fully electric cars?"

Performance of lipos falls off a fairly sharp cliff at very low temperatures. Rapid increase in resistance and drop in usable capacity.

You have to heat the lipo first, before use. Up to around 10 deg C I believe, although anything over freezing gets most of the performance back. Once warm it should remain so whilst being used.

Not too dissimilar in practice, to the need for a block heater / lead acid heater as fitted for your ICE, I suppose.

Don Fry09/07/2019 11:32:19
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Deejay, a hybrid petrol electric will do you, See post on the last page on the numbers for a Mitsubishi PHEV. Mind you might reconsider when you look up its price to buy, speed of development of the technology.

But not a problem to tow substantial loads. You just use a pit more petrol when towing.

Trevor Crook09/07/2019 12:11:41
838 forum posts
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Ceejay, the other day a Tesla Model X steamed past me at a high (illegal) rate of knots on the motorway towing a large trailer tent, so it can be done. We should remember that automotive innovations that initially appear in high-end cars find their way down the chain fairly rapidly.

We are in the very early stages of alternatively fuelled vehicles, the Leaf only appeared about 10 years ago, and the cars being launched now have 2 or 3 times the range, better performance, etc. The motor industry are investing massively. It will be very interesting to see how things develop over the next few years. My present ic car's warranty runs for another 4 years, and when that expires I'll decide whether it was my last ic powered car. Just hope it's worth something by then!

ceejay09/07/2019 14:21:30
412 forum posts
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yep had a search and there aint many yet with any towing capability unless you have a spare 77k plus for the tesla x

83 k plus for a range rover the Mitsubishi is "cheaper" at around 40k so will be a while before I can give up my trusty VW sharan with it 2.2 tonne towing capacity 550 mile range and 35 mpg towing, 700 range and 50 mpg without

I do quite like the new smart electric for commuting so you never know the wifes Nissan micra may be the first to go!!

cp

Nigel R09/07/2019 15:20:59
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"I do quite like the new smart electric for commuting so you never know the wifes Nissan micra may be the first to go!"

If you already own two cars then going electric for the local trips and keeping an ICE for the long haul / heavy duties is a perfect mix. I'd happily have that mix right now, my commutes are predictable and short, but electric aren't cheap enough yet.

Andy Meade09/07/2019 15:22:09
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Posted by Andrew767 on 08/07/2019 17:18:23:

Thats impressive Andy...40mls. Is yours the 2.4ltr version with the bigger battery?

Best i've ever managed is 30 in summer and around 25 in winter. Had mine for two years so it's the older 2.0 ltr generator . Regen saves on the brake pads too!!

Andrew

 

Hi Andrew, no it's an earlier 2014 model. We found going in for all the (three!) recall notices from Mitsubishi made a difference, as the software was updated as well as some mechanical issues. Also driving in ECO mode (the green button on the centre dash) certainly helps. Wife is particularly taken with it as it's so easy to drive and very comfortable.

Happy electrickering.

 

Edited By Andy Meade on 09/07/2019 15:29:33

GrahamWh09/07/2019 19:16:05
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Its all very interesting, but I can see a couple of big problems with us all being forced to go electric with our cars.

Lets say, for simplicity, that electric cars take 40 min to charge at a motorway service station half way through a journey. Petrol cars take 4 minutes to fill up.

The services have maybe 15 petrol pumps. Just using these numbers to make the maths easy, but they are reasonable.

If all the cars were to be electric, the same number of cars need ten times as long to charge as they used to to fill with petrol, so now the station will need 150 charge points and parking spaces to accommodate the same number of cars. Imagine the queues or the land needed to make 150 charging points easily accessible!

Another - is there enough lithium to make batteries for X hundreds of millions of the cars that people have?

Perhaps this will be a technology for the better of only.

What do you think?

Percy Verance09/07/2019 19:37:21
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8109 forum posts
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I think you are overlooking the fact that charge times will lessen with progress. If you'd read one of my my earlier posts, you'll see I mentioned the fact that Tesla are presently upgrading their charging network, including in the UK to a 250kw system. This will enable a Tesla driver to add 75 miles of range in 5 minutes. There is already an Ionity 350kw charging hub up and running in the South West, with dozens more planned. A typical 80% charge could take as little as 8 minutes. And not every electric car driver will run his car down to 20% capacity.

Sorry Graham, but advances in technology will negate most if not all of your argument well inside the next 10 years. And by then batteries probably won't contain lithium. There is already a German company developing such battery technology. Thay have stated that it ought to be production ready in 4 to 5 years.

150 charge points? There is a 32 bay charging hub presently under construction at Falkirk if that helps.  

By the way Graham, the National Grid anticipate approximately 9 million EV's on the UK's roads by 2030. And the downside of all this might mean fossil fuel usage could take a sizeable downturn, possibly resulting in it being slightly more difficult to obtain. You might be waiting at the pump to fill with unleaded Graham.......a good opportunity to compare notes with EV drivers perhaps? And then of course in 2040 the sale of new i.c. engined pasenger cars will be illegal, although I personally feel this may be brought forward to fall in line with many other countries. Even India has an i.c. cut-off point in advance of the UK's present projected date.

 

 

 

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 09/07/2019 20:02:02

Don Fry09/07/2019 19:52:08
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3841 forum posts
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Graham, gut feeling, I would reckon, charging facilities will keep pace with demand. But only if the suppliers of the charge points get a profit, or the taxpayer could continues to subsidise the expansion program. No such thing as a free lunch.

Technology for the better off only. See the first post on this thread. Goes full circle. But, again, gut feeling, renewables will cover the electricity needs. If, and big if, the cars get much lighter, much slower. Not necessarily much longer journey times, but more boring. 

Lithium production. Try Googling, "positive environmental impact, lithium mining" Would not get planning permission in the shires. Multiply production by 10,000, might have a big issue.

Edited By Don Fry on 09/07/2019 19:58:37

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