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Electric Cars.

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Ron Gray19/07/2019 19:20:44
1449 forum posts
363 photos

It’s all very well charging at home when all you need to do is short journeys, but when your journeys extend into 200 miles you have to plan for charging at your destination. I have checked all such journeys I have carried out over the last 6 months and find that there would have been no charging point located reasonably close to my hotels. This then leaves me with the prospect of charging en route so I would be sitting at a charging station for how long, 3, 4 hours? Not really practical. Fast charging points (of which there are even less) could give me 70 miles for a 10 minute charge, assuming no-one else is using the station but not really practical.

So, as I said previously, it’s a hybrid fir me but even getting that was not straightforward, I need a car that can carry some of my models (I’m resigned to the fact that the larger ones will have to go in the trailer) so it needs to be an estate. It can’t be too big otherwise my wife won’t drive it (a Mondeo is too big) (and we’re going to a 1 car household). I refuse to spend 50+K on it.

Percy Verance19/07/2019 19:24:23
8108 forum posts
155 photos


Motor manufacturers will face something of a tipping point next year (2020), as further EU regulations regarding emissions from i.c. engined vehicles kick in. They (the car makers) will be forced to cut tailpipe emissions from the current 130g per km to 95g per km. It's do-able of course, at a price, but then it will probably be reduced further still before long, leaving one other option. Switching to EV production - or increasing it for those whom are already producing them. The downside here for prospective buyers of i.c. cars 5, 6 or more years down the line means that there will be fewer of them from which to choose. 

EV prices will reduce in the long term. That nearly always happens with new tech once it becomes mainstream. Speaking of which Keith, the European Transport lot have predicted EV's will begin to become mainstream in two to three years... The choice of EV models is also predicted to grow rapidly in the coming two to three years from the current 60 or so models to around 170 or threabouts.

An experiment? VW might disagree with you there Keith. They're staking billions - and their future- on it.......

Ron, nor would I fork out 50k on one. I'd hang on in there for at least a year or two, and then possibly consider a nice used Hyundai Kona 64kwh (250 miles) or if you're fortunate enough to find one, a Kia eNiro (again 250 ish miles and a much better model carrier) . By which time Ionity may well have completed their programme of high current charge stations. There will in all probability be other companies doing the same by then as well, so the charge location map ought to look a bit better than it presently is.








Edited By Percy Verance on 19/07/2019 19:52:44

Trevor Crook19/07/2019 20:25:54
854 forum posts
65 photos

Percy, have you seen the new MG EZS? They are now taking orders, and if you are one of the first 1000 you can get one for £21500. MG are adding a £3500 discount to match the government grant for early buyers. They are also including a 7kW home charger.

It's quite a smart looking SUV, a bit bigger than a Kona, and comes with a 44kWh battery, which is good for 160-odd miles on the WLTP cycle, which seems realistic for EVs. They quote an "urban" range of over 200 miles - unlike IC cars, EVs are more economical around town. Warranty is 7 years, and equipment levels are good. The battery is liquid cooled, so it is happy with multiple 50kW charges (unlike the Leaf, apparently).

The only downside is that there aren't that many MG dealers, although I have one about 7 miles away.

Food for thought, and there will be plenty more to come.

Percy Verance19/07/2019 20:37:51
8108 forum posts
155 photos

I'm afraid it's too late for that Trevor. The first thousand have already gone, with the propective buyers being informed by e mail. A few members of an EV forum I look at are among the 1000.......a few more have placed deposits on both the Hyundai Kona and Kia eNiro, and have been advised the wait for those is now approaching 15 months.

I had looked at the MG previously, but being an unknown quantity I wasn't sure it'd be worth a punt at this stage. That said, the early reviews are very good. Probably best left for a least a year though to get an idea of longer term reliability etc. But yes, it looks smart. The tech is there too, with the battery heater/cooler. This is where the Leaf falls down a touch I feel. I almost ordered a Leaf, but something just held me back. I'm happy I didn't do it now. 

The sports coupe MG are introducing next year looks an absolute stunner. It's on if you fancy a butcher's. No good to me though. I prefer a more practical vehicle.





Edited By Percy Verance on 19/07/2019 20:45:28

Keith Miles 219/07/2019 21:40:36
170 forum posts
6 photos


With the greatest respect, you continually keep putting arguments and making predictions about the future whilst seemingly dodging around the harsh realities of the present and immediate future.

So, somebody says that EVs will be “mainstream” in two to three years.

Mainstream on the roads or in the showrooms?

Words are cheap and people say lots of things which turn out to be total cobblers.

Only the customer will ultimately determine when, or if, EVs become “mainstream”. Car manufacturers know this perfectly well and know that they have a challenge on their hands in convincing the “mainstream” to swap their existing IC for EV in order to maintain sales volumes.

Companies also know that development, especially speedy development, of new technology of this nature costs a lot of money, hence the emergence of partnerships, presumably marriages of convenience to avoid potential bankruptcy!

Oh, and where, in order to create this “mainstream”, are all these new EV customers going to come from because I would guess that the existing majority (i.e. the mainstream) of drivers currently on the road cannot afford to buy any car that is less than four or five years old, irrespective of all other considerations.

I would suggest that people who already buy, and can afford to buy, new or nearly new cars cannot be regarded as “mainstream” but rather a fortunate minority amongst a current “mainstream” of vehicle owners with lower budgets.

So, EVs will only become “mainstream” when they become widely available and widely affordable both new and second hand and that ain’t gonna’ happen in 2-3 years!



Edited By Keith Miles 2 on 19/07/2019 21:43:30

Edited By Keith Miles 2 on 19/07/2019 21:44:32

Rich too20/07/2019 07:36:29
3029 forum posts
1070 photos
Posted by Percy Verance on 19/07/2019 14:36:13:

Then it's probably best you remain confused and observe progress as it happens......

I'd suggest looking in fairly regularly at It's a site co-sponsored by VW - soon to be one of the largest EV makers - and has regular news updates on various matters.

And as you were banging on about facts previously, I did note your link led to a site which was no more than opinion. In fact it was headed as such.

I can't understand why you seem to be implying that 80% (or more) of future EV drivers won't continue to charge at home? You seem to think that might change? Why?

Edited By Percy Verance on 19/07/2019 14:44:56

I wouldn’t want to tarnish this thread with actual facts Percy!wink

Rich too20/07/2019 07:44:38
3029 forum posts
1070 photos

For the other side of the VW strategy **LINK**

IDD1520/07/2019 08:15:25
123 forum posts

Well after a week of "flouncing" around this thread is still driving me up the wall! laughdevillaugh


You gotta love the style.


IDD1520/07/2019 08:20:51
123 forum posts

Meanwhile the most important news item of the week, on the charging front at least.

Card Payments at Rapids

And about time too. Grrrrrrr!


David Ashby - Moderator20/07/2019 11:12:26
10911 forum posts
1672 photos
608 articles

Folks. Could I ask that you refrain from altering other posts as a means of reply, it's not nice (and is now in the CoC). At the same time please also refrain from posting opinions as fact in a desire to have the last word. On any forum that's practically impossible. wink 2


Percy Verance20/07/2019 12:44:35
8108 forum posts
155 photos

Tis only on newly installed Rapids though IDD. Retro fitting contactless payment equipment to existing chargers will hardly be at the top of their lists, but hey, it's a step in the right direction. It's how you pay for petrol or diesel. Why couldn't it be the same for an EV charge?

Keith Miles 220/07/2019 13:57:54
170 forum posts
6 photos

By way of a personal summary to this endless debate, I will just say this.

I am not anti-EV nor do I refuse to acknowledge advances in technology or necessarily object to them.

Like many others (I suspect) I am simply saying that, currently, unless one is a hard line environmentalist who only ever rides a bicycle, that there is a massive range of IC vehicles to suit anyone’s personal transport needs, lifestyle and budget due to the existing and long established infrastructure and market that currently supports them.

This did not happen overnight, nor will a similar volume change to EV even if the world’s oil were to run out next week and to suggest otherwise is totally unrealistic.

Indeed, it might seem more likely that we might experience a temporary or even permanent reduction in the number of private vehicles on the roads and a very different world and way of life than the one we have become accustomed to.

And there are some things that technology may never have a solution to, an ever increasing population for example, assuming one rules out a nuclear Armageddon.

So, on that cheerful note, I’m off to the workshop to continue with putting the final touches to a glo-powered Super Chipmunk!


Percy Verance21/07/2019 07:45:26
8108 forum posts
155 photos

Well Keith, I've decided I'm not holding back any more. I visited my local Kia dealer yesterday and filled in their "Declaration of Interest" form regarding an eNiro. As the supply situation now stands, Kia are not taking firm orders, and will now only ask for declarations of interest plus a deposit of £1000, which I paid by electronic transfer. I was asked to choose a vehicle colour, but it was stressed that at this stage it could only be a nominal choice. The provisional delivery date given was early 2021.... The salesman also stated that, due to the now considerable backlog of orders, Kia are soon to close the order book. I understand Hyundai - the partner company of Kia - have already closed their order book for the Kona EV because of demand. 

So now it's the waiting game......

So no Mr Fry, I didn't have a cheque. And at that I'll leave you to ponder your premature assumptions, and perhaps open a bottle of something, and maybe take a gulp for me because I don't touch the stuff........





Edited By Percy Verance on 21/07/2019 08:02:10

Edited By Percy Verance on 21/07/2019 08:15:29

Don Fry21/07/2019 09:05:11
3946 forum posts
42 photos

Well done Percy. I hope you are happy with your purchase, and am glad we are on speaking terms.

Engine Doctor21/07/2019 09:42:36
2300 forum posts
27 photos

Percy can you remember all those prediction on the BBC prog " Tomorrow's World" in the dim and distant past ? all They were given credence by pundits with a vested interest at the time and so made it onto the programe ? Most were pie in the sky and looking back were total male bulls droppings. Today we have amongst others Mr Elon Musk making incredible predictions all the time bolstering his empire from his army of investors . A small part of these prediction will undoubtedly become a reality but don't get carried away , there will I believe always be a place for IC or other forms of power beside electric.

Good luck with your Kia and hope they have improved the quality of the dreadful plastic components like the dashboard, it marks if you stare at it too hard . Your a brave man putting down a grand on an unseen / tested vehicle hope there is an escape clause ?

Rich too21/07/2019 09:54:20
3029 forum posts
1070 photos

Well done Percy, for putting your money where your mouth is. And I have to admit, it’s a good looking car.

However, that is a shed load of cash for a car that size, especially so that you can’t even chose the colour!

I have a question, what motivates the current EV buyers? What is your number one reason for buying one Percy? It can’t be cost savings, that’s obvious. I have various neighbors that have EVs. One of them also owns a large 4 x 4 so he’s clearly not intent on saving the planet. And his BMW i1 (?) was very expensive - I can only assume that it is a company car and he is taking advantage of the tax savings.

dont know

Martin Harris21/07/2019 11:25:42
8806 forum posts
215 photos
Posted by Engine Doctor on 21/07/2019 09:42:36:

and looking back were total male bulls droppings.

I wonder if female bulls' droppings are more or less common than the rocking horse equivalent? wink

Keith Miles 221/07/2019 12:52:30
170 forum posts
6 photos

Fair play to you Percy!

I do have an issue, however, with the concept of a company seemingly requesting a sum of money, for the purpose of allowing a mere registering of  “interest” in a product as opposed to the placing of an order.

Are they collecting sales deposits or investments?

It sounds more like the latter to me and on terms that are unclear.

Only two reasons that I can think of for any business to curtail orders.

A perceived, or actual, difficulty in meeting demand or quite the reverse!

So, please forgive me, but I’m wondering which applies in this case.






Edited By Keith Miles 2 on 21/07/2019 12:56:17

Doc Marten21/07/2019 13:01:01
373 forum posts
4 photos

The question that gnaws at me with the ever accelerating push toward self sustaining EV's is how the oil producing, middle east countries that rely completely on oil exports will react in the coming years?

Keith Miles 221/07/2019 13:31:50
170 forum posts
6 photos
Posted by Doc Marten on 21/07/2019 13:01:01:

The question that gnaws at me with the ever accelerating push toward self sustaining EV's is how the oil producing, middle east countries that rely completely on oil exports will react in the coming years?


Mind you they, too, need to face up to the fact that nothing lasts forever.

Still a little worrying, though!

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