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Hurricane Building Tips and Plan/Woodpack queries

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Phil Cooke07/06/2018 23:09:11
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2157 forum posts
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Hiya Dirk - yeah the ailerons will need either a warp (twist along their length - hot water or ammonia) or you can sand in from a slightly thicker section - just as we had to do on the A-4 - this is a natural resultant product of the washout built into the outer panels and is to be expected in all our builds.

Peter Garsden10/06/2018 20:13:05
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Query Mr Phil.

Wing Fairings - there seems, maybe, to be a part missing - no lower wing fairing over the wing behind the leading edge.

20180610_171323.jpgIn this picture you see a top view. The dividing former is 3mm which makes sense as it has to support 2 pieces of 1/16 balsa which are the front and rear fairing covers - yet the cut out part is 1/16. Subject to what you say Phil, I am going to replace it with 1/8"

20180610_171334.jpg

Here is a side view of the former which shows a lower fillet - thus implying that there should be one to the rear as well?

20180610_171344.jpg

This is a collection of the parts - the large traingular piece shows that there are 2 off - true, there are 2 in the kit - but no lower support?

I had the same shape to create with the Hawk, which employed 1/64 ply for strength - however in a bad landing this will take hammer - so is the lower section omitted on purpose?

Guidance would help please.

Phil Cooke10/06/2018 22:07:34
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2157 forum posts
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Hiya Pete, a couple of good points here which I'll try and answer - let me start by saying I personally haven't built this feature yet on my model (or the beta test fuselage!) so I haven't given these parts much of a thought until now...

Firstly, I don't think there are any parts missing in line with the instructions Matt and I supplied Sarik, you should have all the balsa parts required as per the photo below they all come supplied in 1/16" balsa.

pete fillet 1.jpg

In the plan view you are right the little 'Fillet Side' former is shown in 1/8" but supplied in 1/16" - I agree it is needed in 1/8" to allow two mating surfaces to sit across its width... So yes - REMAKE THIS FILLET SIDE FORMER FROM 1/8" balsa for ease.

The parts are all cut to the correct shape to match the cross-section below - this is the intended section immediately BEHIND the wing T/E where the fillet extends rear along the fuselage with a FLAT, planar underside.

What this view doesn't show, as you have rightly pointed out, is the material you need to 'line' the wing top skin with ONTO WHICH you would build the fillet up against the fuselage...

pete fillet 2.jpg

So in that respect, yes there is a part we need to make that isn't shown on the plan and isn't in the kit of parts.

In previous builds on similar features (my Sea Fury for example) I've always used thin ply to 'line' the wings top surface - I would suggest 1/32" or 1/64" ply in this case as being most suitable. You need ply not balsa on the base as when the wing is removed these fillets become easy to damage in handling and transport. Thin ply is best.

Looking at the plan view, I'm afraid the drawing of this feature is a little 'cartoon' like too. Matt correctly supplied the 2D layout for the balsa upper surface which curves - I think Sarik have simply positioned that part into the plan view when in reality it wouldn't extend outwards quite that far (due to the curvature) - look what happens when you lay the side former onto the plan...you can see it runs short.

pete fillet 3.jpg

So the thin ply 'wing skin' onto which we build the fillet with the balsa parts supplied (apart from the side former which needs to be 1/8" ) should be shaped as per the red dashed line I've drawn above. It should extend under the fuselage side and doubler too of course.

Hope that makes sense? I'm not at this stage of the build yet, I think you are 'pathfinding' through these final stages Pete! Keep up the good work we are watching!!

Edited By Phil Cooke on 10/06/2018 22:15:26

Peter Garsden11/06/2018 20:09:40
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Thanks Phil. Excellent guidance as always.

You have confirmed what i suspected. So just to be clear:-

  1. I will replace the side formers with 1/8 instead of 1/16 - in fact I have glued the two supplied together and will draw round that to make another in 1/8
  2. I will replace the front fillet bottom piece with 1/64 ply.
  3. I will make a new bottom rear fillet also out of 1/64 ply but make it smaller - I will cut it over size because I can always trim it off. 1/64 cuts like balsa but is pricey. I have a big sheet of it.
  4. I might make the side fillet out of 3/16 as it doesn't give much margin for error when joining two pieces that will take a lot of purchase.
  5. I might add another side fillet for extra support. Will see how I go.
  6. Might wet the top pieces to aid curvature when gluing in position.
  7. The top fillet pieces will have to be chamfered to make the fit the fuselage sides snugly.

Edited By Peter Garsden on 11/06/2018 20:12:37

Bryan Tucker03/07/2018 16:43:56
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Help Phil and/or Peter

I've just been looking at your wing fairing posts, they are very helpful and I'm about ready to make mine.

This may sound like a stupid question, but I've never fitted wing fairings before. So, do you bolt the wing on the fuselage and then build the fairing glued to the wing and get a good close fit against the fuselage? OR is the fairing glued to the fuselage and just resting on the top wing skin?
Either way it looks quite a vulnerable structure for a heavy landing to wipe out!

Any help would be appreciated.

Bryan

Phil Cooke03/07/2018 17:06:47
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2157 forum posts
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The fillet fairing needs to be glued to the fuselage, but to make it accurately you build it with the wing mounted to the fuselage if that makes sense.

Key is to 'line' the wing upper surface with the thin ply sheet which will act as your base and foundation for the assembly - 1/64" or 1/32" is probably best... same if you are building up the fillet using balsa as per the plan or in foam as others have done - see Dirk Tincks build blog - blue foam and balsa.

I promise you it will not be vulnerable to damage it sits on the top of the wing and is well protected - even if the wing comes off nastily at an angle the fuselage sides will protect the fillet.

Having considered both methods and wanting to extend the fillet further forward than the drawing and parts show for scale, I will be making my fillets (quite shortly) using blue foam and balsa covered in brown paper/PVA then glass.

Bryan Tucker03/07/2018 17:14:33
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Thanks Phil, that clears that up for me. I think I'll stick with balsa and thin ply as per your earlier post - at least I'll now have the fairing attached to the correct structure. I can see that it will be much less prone to damage when attached to the fuselage.

Peter Garsden03/07/2018 18:07:00
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1376 forum posts
951 photos

My blog has quite a good description of how I fitted the fairings Bryan - see **LINK**

Bryan Tucker03/07/2018 19:27:03
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16 forum posts
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Peter, thank you for letting me see your blog. I can see clearly how to fit the fairings. I can also see the pit falls in making the radiator before finishing the wing to enable it to clear the wing bolt plate - hadn't spotted that one.

Hope to see you in September although I have a lot of hurricane to build yet.

Trevor20/07/2018 12:10:21
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306 forum posts
42 photos

I'm just looking at fitting the upper fuselage formers and either I've got an attack of brain fade in this hot weather or there's a bit of a discrepancy between F5 and F6. As you can see from the pic, the base of F6 is wider than F5.

img_1729.jpg

With the fuselage pulled in onto the top of F7, F5 slots into position nicely but, in my case at least, F6 is going to need trimming somewhat to fit in between.

Also, it looks like the snake hole has been missed from F5 (i'll be routing my snakes differently, so haven't given this aspect much thought)

Did anyone else find F6 to be a bit of a misfit - or am I trying to fit it in the wrong place!

Trevor

Phil Cooke20/07/2018 16:13:23
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2157 forum posts
1503 photos

I don't recall having to trim F6 to fit on width Trevor, can I ask if you've pulled in the tail yet as when that's done first it 'bows' open the top of the fuselage a little and you may find F6 fits slightly easier?

As for the snake holes, I think if you have the servos positioned as plan and you are using std size units, then you probably wont see either former interact with the snake, I found it sat too low - see below. I added a local mount on F4 and fitted the snake outer in F7, F8 and F9 - but you can see it bridges F5 and F6.

snake 1.jpg

Trevor20/07/2018 17:03:49
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306 forum posts
42 photos

Hi Phil, thanks for the prompt response and useful photo. Yes, I do have the sides pulled in onto F8 and F9. However, I’m only working with the lower halves of the sides at present since I plan to plank most of the upper section to avoid the need for Ammonia treatment.

I can’t see any gaps in your picture but I wonder whether the triangular reinforcements at the base of F5 might be an indicator that you fitted it after F6 and found that it wasn’t a particularly snug fit? Anyway, I think my only sensible course is to sand back the lower edges of F6, at least so that it isn’t any wider than F5.

I’m finding that building at this time of year is a rather fitful process, family, flying and other outdoor commitments and opportunities taking precedence over time in the workshop. The good thing though is that when major sanding has to be done (the lower nose section and wing tips for example) one can at least do it outside avoiding the need for Darth Vader impressions! Will it be finished in the next 6 weeks? Who knows!

Cheers,

Trevor

Brian Boucher26/07/2018 13:04:41
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14 forum posts
7 photos

I have just completed mine and did a trial balance and found that had to add 1lb 1oz to get it to balance giving me a flying weight of 4lb 1oz , i have covered it in oratex and spray painted i would not have think that would have increased over a 1lb on the protoype weight any thoughts ???

Phil Cooke26/07/2018 16:16:47
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2157 forum posts
1503 photos

Similar question in Peter Garsden's thread - where I placed a lengthy answer earlier today... **LINK**

In summary, I think this AUW is a combination of denser wood in the Sarik kit than used on the prototype (it's worth pointing out that Matt is renowned for building light as well!) combined with your additional scale features, paint, decals etc (there were none on the prototype) - I would think they will all come out at 3.5lb minimum finished and ready to fly. Are you carrying an extra servo for the rudder? Lights? Additional power source for lights etc etc?

Nothing to worry about - the AUW will be fine - the prototype flew very lightly loaded. I guess some advice for anyone still to make up and sand the tail section - profile them fully with nice, thin T/E and if you consider your supplied stock to be too hard and heavy then recut them from lighter material.

There are a few Hurricanes approaching the finishing line - I'd better set up a 'Finished Model' thread in this section so we can all see them for inspiration (some of us are still left with quite a bit to do!!!)

onetenor26/07/2018 16:23:14
1782 forum posts

1/64 or 1/32 ply covering for upper fuselage better than planking or Ammonia soaked balsa. Lovely stuff to use and finish. As alexander would say "SIMPLES" .

Brian Boucher27/07/2018 11:02:09
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14 forum posts
7 photos

thanks for the reply Phil the only addition to the plan i used 2 servos for the aelirons i think perhaps i did not shave enough wood off the rear end.

Alan Gorham_03/08/2018 12:12:51
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577 forum posts
75 photos

Just thought I'd show the method I've used for the tail surfaces on my Hurri.

It will allow the structure to show through the covering for a scalish look.

imag1955.jpg

Trevor08/08/2018 19:55:32
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306 forum posts
42 photos

This is probably too late to be of much use but, just in case anyone else has yet to undertake the 'Ammonia Challenge' and is looking for alternatives, I can now report that planking the upper fuselage is a perfectly viable approach.

I used 3/32" balsa and no additional formers were required. The following series of pics shows the general approach.

img_1769.jpg

img_1774.jpg

img_1776.jpg

img_1777.jpg

It still needs a second sanding, and there will be a little bit of filling to be done, but it seems to be shaping up okay.

Trevor

Flyer08/08/2018 21:10:26
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473 forum posts
65 photos

Looks good Trevor..... I've just come in from the shed with nostrils full of ammonia, having just used it to bend the sheet. Anyway, look forward to seeing yours shortly Trevor.

Cheers

Ade

Chris Barlow09/08/2018 00:48:31
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1775 forum posts
1208 photos

In a vain attempt to keep the Hurricane off the pork pies I have moved my battery forward by approximately 45mm and it now sits within the spinner.

20180809_002658.jpg

20180809_002724.jpg

20180809_002748.jpg

I cut a hole in F1 to line up with the inside of the battery tube and epoxyed in a ply extension box which sits 50mm inside the existing battery box and projects 45mm forward of F1. I had to sand off the corners of the extension to fit inside the spinner. I hope that my remaining balancing weights will fit on the front/sides of the battery box extension.

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