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Reserve Model engine choice for the Coupe Des Barons Competition.

I face a bit of a dilemna and your assistance is eagerly sort.

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David Davis16/03/2018 07:50:04
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Last year I built a Baron 1914, a classic French trainer dating from the 1970s and based on a WW1 monoplane with massively increased tail surfaces which makes the model look all out of proportion like something in a children's cartoon. If Dick Darstadly were to fly an aeroplane he would fly a Baron.

I converted the model to accept ailerons and finished it in spoof Russian WW1 colours. It's fitted with an OS 40FS but I haven't flown it yet because the weather has been unsuitable or I have had other committments.

baron (2).jpg

However, I had my entry for the Coupe Des Barons, (Barons'Cup,) accepted last month and was given the competition number 247 which means that I am the 247th pilot to enter the competition since it started and I will retain this number for life. It's a bit like being selected to play cricket for England! There will be about 80 pilots at the event on 2nd June. To give you some idea of what the Coupe Des Barons is all about, have a look at this: **LINK**

If I were to say that the event produced a number of damaged models each year I could be accused of understatement! There are four seperate tests on the day:

1. Baguettes in which several one metre long balsa sticks are pushed into the ground. You take off with up to nine other contestants and the one who knocks over the most sticks in a ten minute period, wins the round.
2. Pylon this is just a pyon race against whatever models have survived round 1.
3. Renard This is held after a typically French lunch and takes the form of trying to cut off a streamer towed by a 40 sized trainer.
4. Limbo. You have to fly underneath an enlarged soccer goal. The one who does it most times in ten minutes is the winner.

However, ailerons are banned in the event so I will have to build another wing for the competition.  All models must have a pilot, a machine gun and a set of dummy wing warping wires.

Then a thought occurred to me, "What if I pranged the model the week before the event? It would be useful to have a spare wouldn't it?" Having missed a couple of ready-built Barons on the internet I have decided to accept the offer of a club colleague who has a partly built Baron in his workshop. Being an ex-patriot Englishman I am going to finish this Reserve Model in inter-war RAF colours but I have a dilemna about whether to fit an electric motor or a two-stroke engine and if the latter whether to fit a Merco 35 or an SC32. A 35 two-stroke is the largest you can use in the event.

Do I fit the Merco 35 and get the extra few points for having a period engine?

Do I fit the SC 32 and have the extra power?

Or do I fit an electric motor, probably made in China, to the Reserve Model thereby avoiding any chance of engine malfunction on the day?

I consider myself to be pretty good at setting up engines. I'll be finishing the Reserve Model in spoof RAF colours and as an expatriate Englishman my heart says fit the British Merco!

My head says fit the Chinese electric motor!

I'll have to test run the Merco on the test stand when it stops raining. indecision.

 

 

Edited By David Davis on 16/03/2018 07:52:51

Denis Watkins16/03/2018 08:01:37
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A nice quandary to have David. You are good with motors, and you may not need plan B, if number 1 model survives.

If I knew the Merco history or it was mine from new, I would not hesitate, Fit the Merco

If the Merco was pre-owned, then fit the SC.

Just my opinion

trebor16/03/2018 09:18:54
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This looks like good fun, are ailerons banned for the whole event or just the Limbo ? Couldn't you just disconnect the ailerons ?

Watching with interest yes

Don Fry16/03/2018 09:20:52
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I admire your stamina, I personally have difficulty standing after a club lunch. Use the power plant you are familiar with, less chance of finger chop.

trebor16/03/2018 09:32:22
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The video following has some good pictures and Im sure I saw one with a foam wing that had the tip missing which might be a good idea. **LINK**

David Davis16/03/2018 10:22:08
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Don, I bought both engines second hand. The SC looked new and required running in before it performed faultlessly on the test stand. The Merco I've had for some time but not used for decades. I'm committed to an afternoon's work at the local charity store surrounded by French ladies no longer in the very first flush of youth, otherwise I'd get the Merco on the test stand!

Trebor I saw that foam winged model, no 204 right? The rules state that wings have to be the same shape as the original model plus or minus 10% area. The materials are not specified but as I have most of the wing ribs cut out for the Russian wing and a complete kit for the Reserve Model I'll build it as per original.

I could just disconnect the ailerons, indeed there is a model in the 2016 You Tube clip which features taped up ailerons, model 199 finished in red and transluscent yellow. However, I have reduced the dihedral on my model quite substantially and it may not be very stable without the ailerons. 199 looks to have stock dihedral.

trebor16/03/2018 10:48:58
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Where did you get your kit from ?

David Davis17/03/2018 04:46:47
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I got my kit from the original French producer, Baron Models but I don't think they're producing kits anymore. This company sells the Svenson Vicomte which was the same model produced under licence.**LINK**

David Davis17/03/2018 05:30:17
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PS.

Can anybody suggest a good site with images of inter-war RAF aircraft, usually registered K something, doped in silver with colourful squadron markings?

I plan to finish the Reserve Model in a similar scheme.

Don Fry17/03/2018 06:30:38
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Try the Hawker Hart at Tangmere museum.

Kevan Gillings 217/03/2018 08:34:39
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Hi, the plan is on Outerzone.

trebor18/03/2018 11:21:52
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What`s the standard wingspan as I`ve seen 3 different sizes ?

David Davis18/03/2018 11:36:17
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Posted by trebor on 18/03/2018 11:21:52:

What`s the standard wingspan as I`ve seen 3 different sizes ?

According to the label on the box of my genuine Baron Models "Baron 1914," the wingspan is 1550mm which is pretty well 61" exactly. In the competition you are allowed 10% tolerance on the original: **LINK**

Barons have been produced in both larger and smaller forms but the competition is for the original sized Baron.

trebor18/03/2018 11:45:48
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It would be a good idea to start a competition off like this in our country yes

David Davis18/03/2018 11:54:53
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Posted by trebor on 18/03/2018 11:45:48:

It would be a good idea to start a competition off like this in our country yes

Yeah. Maybe with kit-built WOT 4s!

trebor18/03/2018 12:02:27
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I think you'd have to go back in time. Its got to be vintage.

trebor18/03/2018 12:33:31
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I was thinking along these lines  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHR6yZDAySM

Edited By trebor on 18/03/2018 12:33:56

David Davis18/03/2018 12:48:58
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Posted by trebor on 18/03/2018 12:02:27:

I think you'd have to go back in time. Its got to be vintage.

I wouldn't mind seeing a bunch of Radio Queens powered by nothing bigger than a 52 fourstroke participating in a pylon race! laugh

David Davis02/01/2019 10:00:51
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Happy New Year Gentlemen!

I believe that Sam 35 will be organising a pylon race for Junior 60s this year. Maximum engine size 35 twostroke and 45 fourstroke. They must have taken a leaf out of La Coupe's book!

The 2019 Coupe Des Barons will take place in September and the organisers have increased the maximum size of eligible four-strokes from a 40 to a 52 to give us fourstroke lovers a chance against the ubiquitous OS 35AX. Deep joy! I I have four suitable engines the best of which is an OS52 Surpass.

However, the benefit of your advice is sought. The flying element of the competition consists of four flying tests each of which lasts for a timed five minutes, see my first post on this thread. Only the pylon race calls for out and out speed. However, models can be in the air for ten or more minutes if the Contest Director feels that there is a potential safety problem, or if a contestant's engine stops in flight before the official start of the round and the CD gives the competitor extra time to start his engine.

Given all of the above, what is the minimum size fuel tank you would recommend for a Baron powered by a 52 fourstroke? I want to save weight wherever I can without compromising strength.

Nice picture of last year's competitors for you to look at.

group photograph.jpg

Don Fry02/01/2019 10:24:45
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I think a six ounce, but, you need to test if that is big enough for the pylon element. But I think you will be good to go. You might get away with a 4 oz, but you would be marginal.

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