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No discernible engine brake!

Motor braking not working.

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QUADDRA26/04/2018 01:31:47
42 forum posts
8 photos

Multiplex EG

 

Turnigy L2215J-900 brushless motor

Hobbyking 30A ESC 3A UBEC

32mm alloy folding prop spinner

TGS Precision folding prop 10x6

Hobbyking ESC program wheel

 

Hi

I have an fairly old Multiplex EasyGlider that I decided to update to Lipo, new ESC & brushless Motor.

All done and working well except motor braking. Quite a pain with the EG. Without motor braking the props tend to continue spinning which acts like a bloody great air brake. Also not ideal when landing as the EG lands on its belly so no room for spinning blades.

I contacted Hobbyking and they of course had never heard of this issue but were good enough to send a replacement ESC.

Thought that would be the cure. Just finished soldering connectors and ran a test but still no good, Throttle off but the prop still spins before eventually slowing to a stop.

I’ve gone over everything with the programming wheel time and time again but still spins freely before finally stoping

Program wheel setting Timing-Auto/ Rotation-Reverse/ batt-prot 3.2/ Prolectype-reduce/ brake on/ start soft/ battery setting to lipo/

Any ideas what the issue is and how to fix it.

Cheers

Edited By QUADDRA on 26/04/2018 01:32:22

Edited By QUADDRA on 26/04/2018 01:33:26

McG 696926/04/2018 06:31:20
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2433 forum posts
976 photos

Hi Quaddra,

I'm pretty sure the Electro Gurus around will jump in for assistance soon.

What you could easily try is switching 2 wires for the motor and put the rotation mode back to 'normal' on the ESC.

Maybe it doesn't want to 'brake' when 'reversed? indecision

Cheers

Chris

Dickw26/04/2018 09:49:26
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411 forum posts
70 photos

I have exeprienced on a few ESCs a small gap in throttle position between motor OFF and Brake ON. Could you try lowering the throttle end point a bit beyond normal OFF e.g. set it up as normal then lower thr throttle trim before switching off the motor.

You don't say how you have programmed the end points, but judging by you reference to "programming wheel" settings it may not be possible to adjust the end points on that ESC.

Dick

Edited By Dickw on 26/04/2018 09:50:53

MaL26/04/2018 12:35:44
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135 forum posts
13 photos

There is an entry in the manual on the HK site about checking if the ESC has braking enabled or not, perhaps you could check if the ESC is actually in the brake on mode after setting it 'on' using the programming card...

https://hobbyking.com/media/file/997648571X26327X52.pdf

MattyB26/04/2018 15:21:18
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1876 forum posts
28 photos

I would say it's most likely that your programming card is not compatible with that specific ESC (seen this lots of times with HK products, frequently the documentation is not accurate or out of date). Maybe follow the instructions for manual programing of the ESC without a card? I know it can be a pain doing it from the TX throttle stick, but you only need to be successful once to set the brake...

QUADDRA27/04/2018 01:45:36
42 forum posts
8 photos

Hello all,

Hi Chris (McG 6969) That looks like a sensible answer and the easiest to test, First on the mornings agenda. I’ll keep you informed and thank you for your advice.

Hi Dick (Dickw) Interesting, makes sense. yes keeping it all pretty basic so basic 30 amp HK esc and Basic and to be honest not a bad idea is the simple HK program wheel. I see what you mean. I maybe incorrectly assumed HK was sending me compatible items as I requested their input from the start explaining what I was doing and specifically requesting compatible everything. I also expected everything to arrive at the same time but from the arrival of the first part to completion of order can be counted in weeks. Lots of weeks! I will try the easiest fix first from Chris above. Hopefully its as simple as that, “and now I’m thinking why didn’t I think of that first". If that fails Ill move on to your solution. As far as I am aware the esc being basic can only be programmed with wheel or transmitter throttle stick. I will explore and update with my findings. Thanks Dick for your advice.

Hi Mal, Thanks for the link, Ill have a looking the morning. Im a little confused on your instructions (it doesn’t take much these days ! ) Setting the scene: I have everything wired and connected then disconnect the esc and connect to program card with jumpers all set as specified & with brake on. ESC signifies instructions good with an audible beep. Re-connect to receiver and test. This is where I find theres no change, still not working. Decided, as a test to switch program card jumpers so setting now reads brake off. After going through the rest of the settings and powering back up there is still no brake.. Thanks Mal, Hoping Chriss answer is the answer otherwise I can see me struggling.

Hi MattyB, So your telling me that HobbyKing has possibly sold me compatible items that aren’t compatible, no they wouldn’t do that, would they? Well it would seem that I have a busy morning ahead of me, Programming an esc with the transmitter will be a new experience for me. Im sure ill be keeping your final words in mind, “you only need to be successful once to set the brake” whilst I battle with the esc. Thank you Matty, Ive got lots to test. Ill update with my results.

Many thanks everyone for all your help, really appreciate it.

Lets see what happens.

Piers Bowlan27/04/2018 05:33:37
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1707 forum posts
41 photos

Presumably this is the programming card you are using Quaddra? Could you simply have a faulty card and have you tried changing some of the other settings to see if the card is infact working? The problem with this card is that it doesn't tell you via a led when you have changed a setting, like some others do. Here is a short video on using the programming wheel. To ask a silly question, you are plugging the motor and LiPo into the ESC when you connect the programming card to the ESC, aren't you? 

Edited By Piers Bowlan on 27/04/2018 05:48:24

ken anderson.27/04/2018 08:16:40
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8349 forum posts
768 photos

hello quaddra, during your programming mission, take care with the prop fitted in case you happen to reverse the throttle and closed becomes Wide open(full throttle).....maybe do your programming with the prop off? save your carol singers(fingers)

ken Anderson...ne...1....save the carol singers dept.

John Roberts 927/04/2018 09:55:56
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174 forum posts
167 photos

Hi Quaddra,

I had exactly the same issue with a YEP speed controller supplied by HK and tried everything I could to get the brake to operate. I used the correct program card but nothing I did could persuade the brake to work.

Then, by chance, I found that moving the Tx throttle trim down by 10-15 clicks sorted the problem.

I assume that with the trim at its usual mid point setting the ESC was 'seeing' the throttle as still being slightly 'open' and consequently wasn't applying the brake. So, I suggest you move the trim down towards the bottom of its range and see if that makes any difference.

Good luck!

Simon Chaddock27/04/2018 11:37:20
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5323 forum posts
2786 photos

As a general rule with any ESC you should set the throttle trim to minimum. Some ESCs will not actually arm until you do!

You don't need the prop on to check the brake is working. If it is working just run the motor up to speed snap the throttle shut. The motor will stop very quickly indeed.

It doesn't matter which way round the prop is turning the brake works just the same.

Martin Harris27/04/2018 15:00:50
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8299 forum posts
210 photos

Aren't Dick and John saying that the brake position may be below the normal calibrated throttle range in some cases? I've yet to dig my 4m glider out of the loft for this year's thermals but I had this very same problem last year with a YEP (YGE clone) ESC and didn't find the answer.

I intend to experiment with adding a braking position when I get it down...

John Roberts 927/04/2018 18:20:03
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174 forum posts
167 photos

Yes Martin, your summation is spot on.

Although I had 'trained' my YEP ESC to recognise the full throttle range it would seem that the brake-on position was still some way below the minimum stick position. Moving the throttle trim down a few clicks sorted things out.

It was just by a lucky fluke that I discovered this trick.

Martin Harris29/04/2018 15:56:09
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8299 forum posts
210 photos

Dick sent me a copy of the YGE instructions which made specific mention of the need to reduce the zero throttle position and certainly in the case of the HK YEP "clone" ESC this was the answer. I simply set the lower end of the throttle movement to -110% (my transmitter's standard range is from -100 to +100) and the brake functioned properly. Reverting to -100% disabled braking, which proved the theory.

Looks like I'll be dusting off the launching dolly as soon as the odd thermal looks like it's willing to drag its bubble of spring sun-warmed air away from Mother Earth, as I'm eager to see how it performs now that I don't have that 14" diameter disk of pure drag at the sharp end!

QUADDRA11/05/2018 21:40:08
42 forum posts
8 photos

1 of 4

 

Hello, finally, back to it…

 

Hi Chris,

Thank you for your “switch 2 wires” suggestion, which I really liked, as it would have been a nice quick fix. Notice I said “would have”. Unfortunately, for me, it was not the quick fix, well when I knew it was, read on and you’ll see.

 

Hi Dick,

You put me on the right path Dick. As you say esc end points cant be programmed with the Hobbyking program wheel, not to my knowledge. I thought why not simply dial in negative end points on the Aurora. 2% nothing, 5% nothing, 8% somethings happening, its not an abrupt stop but it is certainly slowing. Eventually dialled down ESC on Aurora to -40% and sub trim - 100% Now we have some braking. I’d say about 80%.

I believe you were spot on with the ESC having a small gap in off and brake on thank you very much for your advice Dick, five stars.

 

Thanks for the instructions link Mal it has been helpful.

 

MattyB Ive checked and the program card although quite limited is compatible with the esc. But, you got me thinking when you said maybe I should follow manual programming of the ESC with the transmitter. That and Dicks comment about end points. So found instructions from tinternet regarding throttle calibration and success, not perfect but definitely more like the braking that I was expecting. Also thinking why didn’t I do this from the start. I always used to do this with other kit as a matter of course. We live and learn.


continued—->

Edited By QUADDRA on 11/05/2018 21:47:58

QUADDRA11/05/2018 21:42:32
42 forum posts
8 photos

2 of 4

Thanks Chriss, Dick, Mal & MattyB, between you all I think we’ve sorted it.

 

Hi Piers , thank you for your advice. It would seem that its my brain thats faulty not the program card. I am totally with you Piers, a better card would have solved this from the start. The wheel is obviously a work of a cost cutting exercise. You do get a beep from the esc but really just confirming its received instructions from the card. I use an ORCA program card with my cars and it is a lot more comprehensive but also a lot more money. Also thanks for the youtube link, very helpful, cheers.

 

Hi Ken,

Thanks for the very good advice, I really must avoid getting those carol singers fingers with my voice.

Seriously, yes I took care. I set the fuselage up facing away from me, elevated and secured so it doesn’t fly off on its own. Also, I always set startup to soft, it just about gives you a chance.

Safest and best practice is always going to be remove props.

Cheers Ken

 

continued ——>

Edited By QUADDRA on 11/05/2018 21:47:39

QUADDRA11/05/2018 21:44:13
42 forum posts
8 photos

3 of 4

Hello John Roberts 9,

Yes you and me in the same boat with HK kit but to be honest I blame myself with this one because the first thing you should always do with new kit is to calibrate the throttle.

You may very well find it beneficial trying out what I did. As Ken said take care and either remove props or secure the fuselage and keep hands well away from the prop. Turn on your transmitter. Set your throttle trims and end points back to stock. Put throttle to maximum then power up esc. ESC should go into program mode and you’ll here it start a series of beeps. You want to listen to the first set of four beeps the same. I disconnected the battery and reconnected a few times just to make sure I was hearing the correct sequence. So on the first sequence of four equal beeps I throttled to zero, probably on the third of the four beeps. The ESC will recognise this command set the esc calibration with your transmitter. Thats it!

Try powering to zero and the brake should be working now. I also found that my maximum throttle chucked out a considerably larger amount of power so got myself a bonus.

Its something we always used to have to do before all these computers and program cards and I guess its something we shouldn’t just assume that everything is already setup corectly.

Hope, that, your helping me, has also helped you John.

Cheers

continued —>

QUADDRA11/05/2018 21:47:08
42 forum posts
8 photos

4 of 4wink

Hi Simon Chaddock, Yes totally agree and I did just that, my transmitter screams and shouts at you if you don’t set throttle to minimum on startup so I was forced into safety from the start. What I didn’t do was the basics and calibrate the esc to the transmitter. My bad assuming its all done in the little magic box of tricks. Purely an oversight by myself.

Thank you for your help and joining the conversation Simon.

Cheers.

 

Hi Martin Harris,

Its possible that the help Ive received in this thread may work for you too. Hope so. Also hoping for some good thermal and slope soaring conditions this year.

Best of luck Martin.

 

John Roberts, I see. Maybe worth moving the throttle trim down, might get a more abrupt stop. I will have a go. Just need that clement weather I was talking about.

 

Martin Harris, If enough of us wish for perfect flying conditions do you think the combined effort will work?

I too, am hoping this fix will also remove that reverse thrust effect I’ve been experiencing..

 

Everyone, apologies for the very delayed response, life has a tendency to get in the way of fun at times.

Thanks again to all of you, really appreciate the help.

Edited By QUADDRA on 11/05/2018 21:48:42

Martin Harris11/05/2018 22:23:50
avatar
8299 forum posts
210 photos

Well, it worked a treat for me and out popped the thermals right on cue. Glide performance - and more surprisingly thermalling - with a working brake seemed more improved than I'd even dared to hope for. Four sessions on the trot with excellent thermalling flights ended rather abruptly when I was transiting between thermals on Thursday afternoon having decided I was plenty high enough in the last one and I encountered terminal flutter.

The propeller, having folded perfectly in flight, survived the vertical impact unscathed...

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