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Percy Verance23/05/2018 13:39:24
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Andrew

Your remark ie: "still tempted to stay with i.c." has prompted me to mention a perhaps less considered change since you last took the modelling plunge. People's tolerances - particularly that of non modellers - to noise has diminished noticeably in my humble experience. As a result, some clubs have lost flying sited in the past few decades, with others perhaps having to move to alternative sites. This, along with other factors, has prompted a huge rise in the popularity of electric flight.

I attended a Fly In held by a neighbouring club last weekend, and it seemed to me that at least half - maybe more - of all the models were electric powered. Even some quite large models were electric, notably an 8 foot span Avro Vulcan along with 1/4 and 1/3rd scale models. There are no real barriers (apart from cost!) regarding what models can be electrified.

After your long break Andrew, you need to spend a little time with a local club to *catch up* with what's current. I'd urge you to refrain from buying anything until you do.

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 23/05/2018 13:51:33

Nigel R23/05/2018 13:46:15
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'tis a good point you make Percy. We're quieter for it, for sure, and more likely to keep our fields.

My own club is, I would guess, 90% electric only flyers.

And a few of us who fly both electric and glow.

My dad reports a similar situation in his club.

Oddly, I've not seen a glow four stroke at our patch yet. All the glows getting regular airings are 40 size 2s.

There is a bigger electric knowledge base these days than there is glow.

Edited By Nigel R on 23/05/2018 13:49:11

The Wright Stuff23/05/2018 13:53:30
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Posted by Simon Chaddock on 23/05/2018 13:21:15:

By you own admission you have not flown much so perhaps it is advisable to separate "building" from "learning to fly".

This is where an electric foam trainer plane comes into its own. Tough enough to survive a crash or two and requiring virtually no preparation to fly, it allows you to build up significant "stick" time relatively quickly.

There is nothing stopping you "building" at the same time as you lean to fly but save your own "valuable" plane until you can!wink 2

Absolutely, yes. I couldn't agree more.

Separate your cheap (in fact, think of it as disposable) foamie from your pride and joy. As an additional bonus, you will learn to fly more quickly because you won't be so 'precious' about it...

Percy Verance23/05/2018 13:56:08
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7071 forum posts
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It's a funny thing noise Nigel. I live in a fairly small semi-rural village, and it's fair to say it's very quiet here most of the time. Oddly though I'm sure if I fired up an engine on my patio, the locals would soon be up in arms. I just know it would happen. But if I got my petrol mower out to cut my lawns, or fired up my petrol strimmer, it wouldn't raise an eyebrow because it's the *right* sort of noise........

I have negotiated the use of a field just a couple of minutes drive from my front door, but the landowner doesn't want noise, so it's 100% electric there. We do have another site we can use for i.c. models, although that's a 20 minute drive away. 

Edited By Percy Verance on 23/05/2018 14:04:47

Nigel R23/05/2018 14:09:00
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I know what you mean. Everyone is desensitised to petrol garden machinery. It is just background. And our little enclave, we have two neighbours running ride on mowers, one running a dumper on occasion, a farm the other way running heavy machinery day in day out, practically everyone using petrol strimmers and trimmers and chainsaws. Can't hear yourself think!

The weird thing is, I almost think that if you ran your glows all the time it would end up being noticed less, because of the "getting used to it" factor!

Percy Verance23/05/2018 14:18:56
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I'm not so sure re: getting used to it. My next door neighbour often chooses 10 o' clock on a Sunday morning to cut up logs he's acquired for his woodburning stove with his chainsaw. Even though his bungalow is 20 yards or so from mine, it's still a horrendous racket........ It maybe wouldn't be so bad, but he always does it on his drive!

J D 823/05/2018 16:03:31
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The next time he is out with the chainsaw have that old COX engine ready to go and let it RRRRRIP.winksmiley

Geoff Sleath23/05/2018 16:31:00
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My neighbour sometimes repairs petrol-powered machinery and, as a result, runs engines in his back garden. I'll run engines occasionally in my garden but just to check out an installation and therefore just for a few minutes. We tolerate each other. Our neighbours on the other side are sheep and they haven't complained either

Actually it's surprising how noisy electric set ups can be. I ran the motor of my quarter scale Mew Gull a couple of weeks ago and the prop noise (16x8) was so loud I couldn't hear the current telemetry voice reports

Geoff

Percy Verance23/05/2018 17:13:20
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J D 8

I don't have any Cox engines I'm afraid. The nearest I ever got was a few McCoy jobs back when I flew control line in the early 70's. I don't think I'd have the patience for them now. Nasty little biting things.......

Geoff

I'd agree re: noisy electric set-ups. At the Blackpool Club's Fly In last Sunday I spotted a nice WW1  DH pusher type model which flew nicely. What spoiled it a bit for me personally was the extremely high pitched whine it produced. I think it could well have benefitted from a lower kv motor with a larger prop. I did look afterwards, and there seemed to be sufficient clearance between the booms for a larger prop. I think it may have been one of the Maxford artf jobs.

Edited By Percy Verance on 23/05/2018 17:19:30

Percy Verance23/05/2018 17:36:45
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7071 forum posts
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David

Re: Fox K&B, Veco, Webra HP etc. All alive and kicking A search for MECOA ( Model Engine Corporation Of America) will reveal all........

Looks like i.c. engines are alive and well in the USA? American modellers don't appear to have caught the electric bug quite as much as over here........

Edited By Percy Verance on 23/05/2018 17:46:34

David Davis23/05/2018 19:59:27
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Posted by Nigel R on 23/05/2018 13:23:53:

"So, can I go electric for a 60 size motor?"

You can go electric for a 60cc motor nowadays. Electric has reached parity with glow and petrol for 10 minute flight times.

Can't say I'd personally recommend anything that big as a first setup though. Even a 10cc sized setup is a pushing it for a beginner to the field.

The 200W to 250W setups, however, have a lot going for them for a first time around.

"still tempted to stay with IC."

Four strokes are more common now - DD's recommendation has a lot going for it. Although I'd suggest a .40 size 2 stroke on the Boomerang. Probably an ASP from justengines.

I'd go just a little bigger. A ballraced 46 like the ASP 46 will fly the Boomerang nicely. Mine flies on a nice old Enya 50. Not the most powerful engine in the world but very reliable once run in. Bear in mind that the current Boomerang has a completly sheeted wing and a little extra power will help on take off. Besides, all beginners crash sooner or later and it would be a pity to wreck a nice fourstroke when you're learning to fly!

David Davis23/05/2018 20:01:59
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Posted by Percy Verance on 23/05/2018 17:36:45:

David

Re: Fox K&B, Veco, Webra HP etc. All alive and kicking A search for MECOA ( Model Engine Corporation Of America) will reveal all........

Looks like i.c. engines are alive and well in the USA? American modellers don't appear to have caught the electric bug quite as much as over here........

Edited By Percy Verance on 23/05/2018 17:46:34

Point taken Percy, if you want one of these engines you can buy one from MECOA, but when did you last see one on the flying field?

Don Fry23/05/2018 20:12:22
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I'd second that, if the prop of a Boomerang bit you, it would hurt,not ow that stung, but REALY hurts, perhaps a visit to casualty. But bigger than that is risking life changing injuries. A bite or two teaches some care.

Percy Verance23/05/2018 21:34:23
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7071 forum posts
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Hi David

It's probably much less likely we'll see the likes of K&B etc on flying fields these days. They're known to us old farts modellers of more senior status, but perhaps less familiar to those who've been in the hobby but a decade or two.

It does seem as though American modellers are still fully accepting of i.c. engines, as there just doesn't appear to be the big swing to electric we've seen on this side of the pond.

 

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 23/05/2018 21:40:19

Geoff Sleath23/05/2018 22:58:39
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I built a Great Planes Ultimate a few years ago. The instructions were very detailed and even went so far as to recommend where it should be flown - at least 10 miles from any habitation! I doubt if there's anywhere like that in England and possibly even in the UK so noise is often not an issue in a country like the USA with lots and lots of space.

Here we have to be good neighbours.

Geoff

PS Out of curiosity I checked the instructions for the Ultimate and I was wrong about the 10 miles.  It actually suggests 6 miles but I suspect I'm still right about the difficulty of finding anywhere like that in England - even the Lakes!

Edited By Geoff Sleath on 23/05/2018 23:03:28

David Davis24/05/2018 05:52:44
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Don't let them put you off Andrew! If you want to use a glow motor go for it!

They are much quieter these days and it's possible to buy Super Quiet silencers from Just Engines which futher reduces the sound generated. I have one on my SLEC Fun Fly, a builder's kit and a good second model.

fun fly apres maiden. (1).jpg

All of this assumes that glow engines are permitted at the club you choose to join.

Tim Flyer24/05/2018 09:23:28
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Hi Percy agreed. I have bought engines from the US which aren’t available here but it does take a longer time. I think that the piston engine is much more part of US culture than here and there is a much bigger knowledge base there. I guess it has had to be too considering the size of the US. I was surprised at the lack of glow knowledge base here when I came back to the hobby 10yrs ago . Just engines are excellent and a really helpful resource to our hobby. Luckily my club is a ‘haven for IC engines’ with nearly all members doing both electric and IC Some of our less experienced members initially jumped from glow to petrol thinking it would be easier, but a number have now returned to glow realising its about as simple as an engine gets ! All power types have their niches on particular models and it’s wonderful being able to freely choose. I’m a committed IC enthusiast but it still doesn’t preclude my odd attempts at electric or gliding. However nothing beats the joy of flying a properly silenced and tuned engine. Some people talk nonsense about glow fuel disappearing etc. That won’t happen I think, but I will take it up when I’m at Santa Pod this weekend 😊

Nigel R24/05/2018 09:52:52
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"Re: Fox K&B, Veco, Webra HP etc. All alive and kicking A search for MECOA"

Percy, you should read the US forums, if you did you would quickly pick up that MECOA are a graveyard where the old stock from dead brands goes to rot on a shelf, until it runs out completely. MECOA don't make anything worth talking about. There are a number of horror stories about money paid to them for parts and motors and nothing being received.

In 2 stroke land, OS, Novarossi & ASP are still sold. Novarossi seem to really get rated.

4 strokes, Saitos and OS are popular, ASP mopping up the rest.

Much like here I guess, except Novarossi don't seem to have an EU distributor for their aero stuff. And we have Lasers in the mix.

Tim Flyer24/05/2018 10:27:10
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827 forum posts
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Novarossi are my favourite “go fast” engine... absolutely amazing quality but obviously expensive. I have one in my hydroplane and it’s very very fast. I did buy an engine an own brand MECOA from them a few years back and it took ages to arrive after lots of chasing. I saw the same warnings as above afterwards on the Web. My Novarossi came from their German distributors and the delivery was immediate. 

Edited By Timothy Harris 1 on 24/05/2018 10:30:36

Edited By Timothy Harris 1 on 24/05/2018 10:33:48

Nigel R24/05/2018 10:56:03
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Didn't know they had German distributors - good to know.

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