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New Drone Laws from 30/5/2018

Read and weep for aeromodelling

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Steve J17/06/2018 08:16:50
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Posted by Rich too on 17/06/2018 08:03:27:
Posted by Steve J on 17/06/2018 07:57:59:

AN(A)O 2018 says that you will need an "acknowledgement of competency" from the 30th November 2019.

Steve

Yes, and I think we’ve established that we don’t know what that is going to be. Unless you know otherwise.

"It is currently anticipated that the CAA will require the successful completion of an online test on the law relating to SUA although it is possible that in future they may require the completion of practical assessments, especially for heavier SUA." (explanatory memorandum)

I posted the relevant bit from AN(A)O 2018 yesterday.

EASA NPA 2017-05 had quite a bit of detail about such a test in the means of compliance/guidance section.

Steve

Percy Verance17/06/2018 08:24:43
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There is no need for any new *test* centres Rich. The existing club structure - and presumably the upcoming online test - will take care of it.

Just take a deep breath, swallow and take the "A" test Rich. You're probably going to have to at some point anyway if you want to fly legally.

 

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 17/06/2018 08:31:47

ken anderson.17/06/2018 09:29:43
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I think we all must wait and see.....few year ago it was mentioned at our club(BVRMC) about members having an A cert and there was a lot of ifs and buts about it-the main argument was that some of the long standing lads had been flying for years with out any bits of paper to say they were competent....and they didn't intend to change now.....if it is deemed that all must have a cert(A) I feel sorry for the examiners at club level...…

ken anderson...ne..1..... a dept.

MattyB17/06/2018 09:45:15
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Posted by Percy Verance on 17/06/2018 08:24:43:

There is no need for any new *test* centres Rich. The existing club structure - and presumably the upcoming online test - will take care of it.

Just take a deep breath, swallow and take the "A" test Rich. You're probably going to have to at some point anyway if you want to fly legally.

It does not appear mandatory practical testing is likely anytime soon, but if it and when it does there are a few issues with the “just get an A at a club” approach:

  1. There are ~12k country members of the BMFA who don’t necessarily have ready access to an examiner.
  2. There are very few silent flight examiners qualified, and a much higher % of slope and thermal pilots who don’t have an A.
john stones 117/06/2018 09:57:51
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Posted by MattyB on 17/06/2018 09:45:15:
Posted by Percy Verance on 17/06/2018 08:24:43:

There is no need for any new *test* centres Rich. The existing club structure - and presumably the upcoming online test - will take care of it.

Just take a deep breath, swallow and take the "A" test Rich. You're probably going to have to at some point anyway if you want to fly legally.

It does not appear mandatory practical testing is likely anytime soon, but if it and when it does there are a few issues with the “just get an A at a club” approach:

  1. There are ~12k country members of the BMFA who don’t necessarily have ready access to an examiner.
  2. There are very few silent flight examiners qualified, and a much higher % of slope and thermal pilots who don’t have an A.

And there's an association representing modellers of all descriptions, with examiners aplenty, it can be used to overcome any problems that may arise.

Steve J17/06/2018 10:00:51
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My understanding is that any BMFA examiner can do an SF 'A'. It's only 'B's where you need an SF lead examiner.

The SF(E) is a doddle. I did one a couple of years ago in anticipation of a requirement coming in.

Steve

Edited By Steve J on 17/06/2018 10:04:11

Dave Rose17/06/2018 10:10:03
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A number of posts seem to suggest that model flying is all about belonging to a club that has a flying venue and the models are all powered sport or scale models! IOW, the ideal set up for A certificates, B certificates, etc.

I fly at such a club. I also fly gliders on slopes and occasional thermal gliding The chaps I know on the slopes mainly do not fly power, and are not power club members, and a fair number do not belong to any club.Most have never flown a power model.

So, imagine you tell them about this thread and the point at which we are now, - the taking of the A certificate is being discussed as being required for them to able to continue flying legally. Someone then says " Is there an A certificate test for slope glider pilots, or do we have to join a power club and fly a power plane and pass the test? If there is a "slope/glider" test, how is it conducted, and by whomI .

Anyone know the answer?

Not so simple as an A test is it.? I don't think the A test is/was envisaged in the ANO. Perhaps they only intend an online test re safety and legal knowledge required to fly models within the law of the ANO, accepting that the physical ability to fly them is acquired as it is at present.?

john stones 117/06/2018 10:18:59
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Tests

Percy Verance17/06/2018 10:25:34
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Should it become necessary to hold at least an A cert, then perhaps the BMFA might like to arrange for the approximately 12k Country Members to take their A tests at the National Centre?

Edited By Percy Verance on 17/06/2018 10:28:12

ken anderson.17/06/2018 10:30:32
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12K....country members without access to an examiner... !!...anybody know how many "examiners" the BMFA has on its books? should the time come where they need to do a few(canny few) tests....heaven help them......trying to co-ordinate it all...sorry about been off topic...

ken anderson...ne...1...…………..practicalities dept.

Adrian Smith 117/06/2018 10:36:49
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Something published by the BMFA forwarded by our club secretary :-

If you have not already seen the post by Dave Phipps, Chief Executive of the BMFA, of late 15th June following the meeting between the Department of Transport, CAA and Model Flying Organisations, you can find the information on this link: https://bmfa.org/News/News-Page/ArticleID/2528/Update-on-changes-to-UK-Regulations-and-the-400ft-height-limit
The text is as follows:
The latest meeting between the Department for Transport (DfT), Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) and representatives from the UK Model Flying Associations took place this afternoon (Friday 15th June) at the DfT offices in London.
The most urgent matter to address was the recent change to the Air Navigation Order (ANO) which introduced (in Article 94A) a 400ft height limit on the operation of all Small Unmanned Aircraft (SUA) which will come into effect on the 30th July 2018. Whilst the changes to the ANO are primarily aimed at regulating 'drones', the 400ft restriction will also apply to model aircraft below 7Kg.
However, we are pleased to report that agreement was reached that the Model Flying Associations will collectively apply for an exemption from Article 94A to allow their members to continue operating model aircraft below 7Kg above 400ft as they do under the current ANO. The DfT and CAA were supportive of this course of action and did not foresee any reason why the exemption would not be in place in time for the 30th July.
Negotiations on the other changes introduced in the ANO (operator registration and online testing for pilots) remain ongoing, but for now it is business as usual for members of the BMFA, LMA, SAA & FPVUK. Happy flying!
Are we agonising unnecessarily?
ken anderson.17/06/2018 10:37:46
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Posted by Percy Verance on 17/06/2018 10:32:52:

Well at least I'm out of it Ken......... cheeky

…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

don't understand Percy, how you can be out of it...you fly RC models so you are part of the bigger picture..

ken anderson...ne...1..... picture dept.

john stones 117/06/2018 10:40:52
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Agonising is part of the hobby lately, and football doesn't start till 1pm.

Percy Verance17/06/2018 10:41:36
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Seemingly not Adrian, as long as you're a member of one of the organisations listed at the end of the statement..........

However if you aren't a member...........

Edited By Percy Verance on 17/06/2018 10:46:33

Adrian Smith 117/06/2018 10:42:11
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I am still in agony over the rugby, but no expectations on the footie however, John!

Percy Verance17/06/2018 10:43:02
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Ken

I was specifically referring to the fact that I won't be taking any more tests personally...............

john stones 117/06/2018 10:44:13
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LMA got an exemption to the as yet to be or not to be tests then Percy ?

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator17/06/2018 10:46:47
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Posted by Dave Rose on 16/06/2018 23:21:44:

Well BEB, no it maybe isn't "all that clear". Maybe as Marty says the devil is in the detail. I hope not, and that simply being a member of BMFA will allow such members to fly their model planes ( as opposed to drones)on flying fields, slopes and fields much as they do already.

But you having a dig at the "doom and gloom brigade" seems a little unfair ( to put it politely ) after all, they were merely saying that if the status quo remains then come August there would be a big problem.

Now this latest statement seems to calm all those fears. And things will stay as they are.. Good.

But then we find you don't want that. You now want every B MFA member to be an A certificate holder ( or presumably they will become law breakers if they stay as they are.). I know many BMFA members, some members of Clubs, some not, who are not A cert holders, and do not wish to be. ( particularly glider pilots), but you would impose your requirements upon them. Even though the "good news" statement isn't going there at all.?

So much for wishing to keep things as they are, as much as possible.

LOL! Well, let's try and inject a little reality into your view of the world shall we?

1. I am not imposing anything on anyone - I don't have that power!

2. Given that there has to be a test (imposed by the government, not me!) I am expressing my personal view that as aeromodellers we might prefer a test designed "by aeromodellers for aeromodellers" - as opposed to some generic commercially orientated government sponsored test?

The reality is (so get used to it now) you have only three possible options:

1. Press for an aeromodeller based test such as the A-cert and keep matters under our control as a hobby.

2. Do the government's test once it appears.

3. Stop flying - or alternatively be completely irresponsible and continue flying illegally and uninsured.

That's the world as it is. It's not "imposed by me" but by the government. All I'm trying to do is suggest the most painless way through the maze for us as aeromodellers - I think that is via a BMFA A-cert. But if you think differently that's fine, it's your call. Just remember to be careful what you wish for!

BEB

Percy Verance17/06/2018 10:49:55
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I'm not quite sure I understand the question John. The LMA do have their own proficiency exam John, along with the scheme which regulates/oversees the construction of large models.

Although I'm no longer a BMFA member and have let my Examiner rating lapse, my other BMFA certifications don't lapse and will remain current until I cease breathing.

Edited By Percy Verance on 17/06/2018 10:53:40

john stones 117/06/2018 11:08:03
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We don't insist on an A for you to fly solo at our club, and I'd rather not go there, sick of the nonsensical arguments over the years, but how would an online test work, how would they know who'd completed it, you go to a special booth like a driving test, or sit at home n your clued up mate feeds you the answers (if you're a wrong un) what a can of worms.

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