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New Drone Laws from 30/5/2018

Read and weep for aeromodelling

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Martin Harris22/07/2018 15:07:50
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Posted by David Mellor on 22/07/2018 14:29:22:

The idea that we will all be required to fit altitude recording to our planes is wrong, I think. The CAA must bring a case based on their evidence of (amongst other things) an altitude violation. There is no onus in law for a model flyer to demonstrate that he/she was complying. The onus is on the prosecution to submit evidence as testable proof of non-compliance.

Certainly not an idea that I've ever seen suggested from any official source.

Whilst there's no requirement for the model flyer to prove innocence, there is a requirement to adhere to the law. A simple height estimate may suffice with the benefit of experience but reasonably accurate measurement is one tool we can use for our own benefit to avoid any transgressions or construct a defence or more likely mitigation of taking reasonable care. Those suggesting "just carrying on as normal" need to be aware of the possible consequences to themselves and the hobby.

Edited By Martin Harris on 22/07/2018 15:28:38

ken anderson.22/07/2018 15:35:47
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Posted by john stones 1 on 22/07/2018 12:03:34:
Posted by Basa on 22/07/2018 12:00:06:

When your flying you rc model whose gonna be policing the every move ie; height because I know there is nobody to check mine and until its made law to have height telemetry i could not accurately judge the height ?

Edited By Basa on 22/07/2018 12:01:19

You are.

…………………………………………………………………………………………..

john's answer..... is probably one of the best one's on this thread...

ken anderson...ne..1..... common sense dept.

PatMc22/07/2018 15:40:47
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Posted by Gordon Whitehead 1 on 22/07/2018 11:48:47:

 

Regarding Pat's comments about the LMA and the 400ft limit, I suspect that for their displays they apply for an exemption: http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalapplication.aspx?appid=11&mode=detail&id=4670 so that they can adequately display their models' capabilities to the public. Since this exemption is only for displays and comps, presumably the LMA flyers somehow practice their display routines within the 400ft restriction at other times.

 

I wasn't refering to the LMA or their displays. I was refering to all over 7Kg flyers, many of whom fly regularly at club sites without any exemption application.

Over 7Kg @ 400ft ceiling : result happiness teeth 2 thumbs up

Under 7Kg @ 400ft ceiling : result misery crying thumbs down

Logic : eludes me. questionface 22

Edited By PatMc on 22/07/2018 15:41:43

David Mellor22/07/2018 16:13:09
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Posted by ken anderson. on 22/07/2018 15:35:47:
Posted by john stones 1 on 22/07/2018 12:03:34:
Posted by Basa on 22/07/2018 12:00:06:

When your flying you rc model whose gonna be policing the every move ie; height because I know there is nobody to check mine and until its made law to have height telemetry i could not accurately judge the height ?

Edited By Basa on 22/07/2018 12:01:19

You are.

…………………………………………………………………………………………..

john's answer..... is probably one of the best one's on this thread...

 

ken anderson...ne..1..... common sense dept.

 

That is how it works. You are responsible.

In the analogy, it is the same as controlling speed in a car - the driver is not required to have a record of his speed, he is only required to control his speed to within the legal limits.  How he does that is up to him.  Most people use the speedometer (I'm not being facetious) but these days there are phone aps (sat based) that are more accurate. 

Edited By David Mellor on 22/07/2018 16:18:10

Erfolg22/07/2018 16:55:21
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That is until it is a truck, when a permanent record is made and stored (for what ever is the statuary period).

David Mellor22/07/2018 16:59:16
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True, Erf. My example was specific to cars for that reason.

Gordon Whitehead 122/07/2018 18:11:03
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Posted by PatMc on 22/07/2018 15:40:47:
Under 7Kg @ 400ft ceiling : result misery crying thumbs down

Logic : eludes me. questionface 22

You're the first one here to mention misery laugh

PatMc22/07/2018 18:31:46
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Posted by Gordon Whitehead 1 on 22/07/2018 18:11:03:
Posted by PatMc on 22/07/2018 15:40:47:
Under 7Kg @ 400ft ceiling : result misery crying thumbs down

Logic : eludes me. questionface 22

You're the first one here to mention misery laugh

No, I'm the just first that's used that word for what's been described on this thread several times. wink 2

Phil 922/07/2018 19:28:55
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Posted by PatMc on 22/07/2018 18:31:46:
Posted by Gordon Whitehead 1 on 22/07/2018 18:11:03:
Posted by PatMc on 22/07/2018 15:40:47:
Under 7Kg @ 400ft ceiling : result misery crying thumbs down

Logic : eludes me. questionface 22

You're the first one here to mention misery laugh

No, I'm the just first that's used that word for what's been described on this thread several times. wink 2

 

I used to fly at a club that already had those restrictions (for other reasons) not misery it was still adequate for most sport flyers. and also reduced some other  issues that I have seen other clubs suffer from such as noise

Edited By Phil 9 on 22/07/2018 19:32:25

Gordon Whitehead 122/07/2018 20:17:15
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Back in the 1970s at RAF Brize Norton we flew from one side of the airfield, with VC10s and Hercs operating on the main runway. ATC would usually, but not always, fire off a flare to warn us to land when a big 'un was inbound or about to leave. Nobody must have thought then about a height restriction.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I used to fly at a club on an RAF airfield which hosted an ATC Volunteer Glider School. After about 20 years of problem-free flying we suddenly had a 300ft altitude restriction imposed at the whim of an incoming school commandant. No misery, we just got on with it of course. But depending on what you flew your flying style might have had to change somewhat, not least those who liked to fly thermal-hunting gliders.

 

 

Edited By Gordon Whitehead 1 on 22/07/2018 20:19:02

Gordon Whitehead 122/07/2018 20:58:59
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Posted by Piers Bowlan on 22/07/2018 07:49:23:

I hope you do complete your JP design Gordon as I have a Wren 44 and a JP would be just the ticket for it.

A clubmate is relying on me doing a plan, Piers, so I'll get on with it soon and probably do a build thread too. It'll be a JP5A which allows the choice of with/without tip tanks, and whether or not to decorate and equip as a Strikemaster. Apologies for delayed response.

Gordon

MattyB23/07/2018 00:16:07
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Looks like similar moves are being made in the US to hear to gain access to the airspace below 1000ft for commercial use; the commercial drone industry is looking for the repeal of section 336 that protects the rights of model flyers. I know Bruce Simpson can be an acquired taste, but look past that and watch the sections from the committee hearing itself to which the AMA was allegedly not invited - it’s pretty hideous stuff...

Edited By MattyB on 23/07/2018 00:18:29

Piers Bowlan23/07/2018 04:47:40
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I will look forward to that JP5A build thread Gordon and as you say, plenty of colour schemes to choose from. Perhaps an article for RCM&E would go down well too.

I think the altitude restriction is all about taking reasonable care, not flying in controlled airspace or deliberately endangering other airspace users. Until all GA, military aircraft and RPAS (that's us too) are fitted with GPS based altitude reporting + data link, vertical separation is going to be by Mk1 eyeball, so not very accurate at all. 'See and avoid' is the name of the game for now.

MattyB23/07/2018 09:35:31
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Posted by MattyB on 23/07/2018 00:16:07:

Looks like similar moves are being made in the US to hear to gain access to the airspace below 1000ft for commercial use; the commercial drone industry is looking for the repeal of section 336 that protects the rights of model flyers. I know Bruce Simpson can be an acquired taste, but look past that and watch the sections from the committee hearing itself to which the AMA was allegedly not invited - it’s pretty hideous stuff...

Playable video to make it a bit easier to view...

Cuban823/07/2018 10:31:16
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Good for Bruce to to bring this to everyone's attention - very good question.....where was (is) the AMA? Love Bruce's comment about the AMA off for the summer, sipping mint juleps!laugh.

Gordon Whitehead 124/07/2018 12:14:42
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WOW! That video was a real conversation stopper! Is everyone just too gobsmacked, or has everyone gone on holiday?

OK, let's attempt to cheer things up with another video which shows my miserable attempt at doing an unscripted uncoordinated aerobatic sequence within a 300ft height restriction back in 2011. Due to other defined "no fly" areas (this was on an airfield too !!) the entire box was about 300 yards long by 200 yards across, just a bit bigger than the sheep field I fly in these days. It's just possible that I did stray a bit out of the "box" on occasion, but not by much. My thanks to Harry Curzon on camera for staying on his feet when he should have been dizzy, and filming each of the two flights in its entirety so there was no need for stitching bits together.

It's not pretty! Here's hoping we get the required height exemption.

Gordon

Edited By Pete B - Moderator on 24/07/2018 16:12:34

Frank Skilbeck24/07/2018 22:55:22
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Exemption granted , keep calm and carry on. Well done to all involved.

john stones 124/07/2018 23:00:45
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Well done all. yes

Ray Dunn24/07/2018 23:34:13
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Great job... That was cutting it fine.

.. and "autonomous" and "multi rotor" seem to be their final definitions for "drone".

ChrisB24/07/2018 23:39:52
1226 forum posts
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As expected, all is well. Well done to all involved

Hopefully that's an end to it!

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