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Flair Pup De-commissioning now Re-commissioning

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Bobby12/06/2018 15:55:33
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53 forum posts
85 photos

pup.jpgdscf6636.jpgdscf6635.jpgdscf6634.jpgI decommissioned the Pup because I found it too tame for me flying wise and the kit of parts for a Hawker Tomtit I have would only end up making a model that basically is just the same, so have now decided to re-commission the Pup with a 90fs fitted, instead of the original 70fs. The pics attached (hopefully) show the modification not to be too difficult, as when I built it I made the top fuse completely removable. New 14ozs tank/eng mount/upper fwd cabane struts plus a new throttle servo position etc,. Question has anyone done this upgrade to a 90 and if so did it make a good increase in performancedscf6629.jpg

Jon - Laser Engines12/06/2018 16:19:19
3920 forum posts
151 photos

a 90? its nearly double what i used in mine! I found they fly best on a 50-60 fs. I have flown one using our 70 and to be honest i found it well over powered and not as pleasant as the lower powered version.

Each to his own though

David Davis12/06/2018 18:33:42
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3003 forum posts
506 photos

A 90 will certainly liven up the old Puppeteer but I think that it will spoil its charm. The original Sopwith Pup was fitted with only an 80 horsepower engine.Mine flew well enough with an old HP VT 49 four-stroke.

Now if it were a Pitts or Ultimate ...

J D 812/06/2018 18:39:48
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876 forum posts
54 photos

It will climb faster and come down quicker,but a pup is still a pup.

Martin Harris12/06/2018 18:42:25
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7696 forum posts
191 photos

Mine flew on an OS40 FS (with no noticeable compression) although I did boost the power to a 52 after a few years - anyone's Puppeteer used less power than that?

Bobby13/06/2018 11:29:21
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53 forum posts
85 photos

Thanks Gentlemen for your inputs, sadly this still leaves my Question without an answer, the purpose of the thread was to find info on the performance level with increased power, my thoughts are although the power has gone from a 70fs to a 90fs, with the increase in speed and hopeful acro ability would that be reduced by an increase in drag etc to leave me disappointed again with just an old floater. The old girl will loop from the level with the 70 but you have to keep everything small for anything else, I would like to be able for much bigger loops and reversals etc to be there like my other Bipes. (bobby) Bob.

Denis Watkins13/06/2018 11:57:39
2906 forum posts
141 photos

Bobby, its an easy comment to make that an over powered model can be throttled back

But this falls down when compared to the correct sized motor

Your carrying a lump around on the front that is not required, and said lump

Never quite reaches operating temperature as you would rip the wings off at full chat

And then by throttling so far back, you don't quite get the useful torque that the motor can give

Its really like flying round with a restrictor on the motor

The correct motor can be flown at full chat when need be, at good temperature and usefull torque

Just my humble opinion bud

Jon - Laser Engines13/06/2018 12:05:48
3920 forum posts
151 photos
Posted by Bobby on 13/06/2018 11:29:21:

Thanks Gentlemen for your inputs, sadly this still leaves my Question without an answer, the purpose of the thread was to find info on the performance level with increased power, my thoughts are although the power has gone from a 70fs to a 90fs, with the increase in speed and hopeful acro ability would that be reduced by an increase in drag etc to leave me disappointed again with just an old floater. The old girl will loop from the level with the 70 but you have to keep everything small for anything else, I would like to be able for much bigger loops and reversals etc to be there like my other Bipes. (bobby) Bob.

The model is just an old floater and always will be. It sounds like you want an aerobatic model and if so then you are likely better off just buying something like a pitts or the wots wot. The pup is not intended for, or stressed for high speed aerobatics and high G. With more power and weight, combined with an aerobatic thrashing its quite possible it will simply fall apart in the air.

Cuban813/06/2018 12:53:27
2031 forum posts
3 photos

90fs turning a 14X8 prop at typically 9000 rpm according to an on-line static thrust predictor (very accurate I find) **LINK**is giving a figure of 9lbs - the old Pup will be OOS (sorry slapped wrist, to 400' laugh) in no time. Way over the top.

Geoff Sleath13/06/2018 12:58:29
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2720 forum posts
199 photos

I agree with Jon. You're trying to make the Puppeteer into something it wasn't designed to be and just changing the engine won't really help. If you want an aerobatic biplane then get (say) a Pitts or an Ultimate and either keep the Puppeteer as a relaxing alternative or sell it.

Geoff

Bobby13/06/2018 13:27:00
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53 forum posts
85 photos

Hi Dennis and Jon. I hear you and get where your coming from, I guess I should have mentioned the Pup is not made to the standard plan design, but was reinforced to all the parts that I considered weak for my type of flying, the model carries a lead weight of 9.2oz at the bulk head engine mount beam to achieve the CofG, the 70 has to be at full chat for the loop with absolutely no reserve of power. For my mind the extra power from the 70 to a 90 would be useful for climb, loop etc., not for the general flying. I am convinced that structure wise nothing will let go. BUT!! I will progress in flight with a softly, softly approach. Dennis, Humble! you and I are entitled to our thoughts/whatever, I remember as child convinced my Jetex (home design) space ship would leave the launch pad, but all I got was a cloud of smoke and the rotten thing did not even fall over, but experience grew from there to tread carefully and learn as you go. Jon, my idea is to use the power for graceful acrobatics not the full blown type I sometime use for my favourite bipe 1, she is getting on now like me. My Ultimate is up in the loft as it only likes to fly fast and my belief is that aeros should be graceful and slow using power to achieve this. Hope I'm not coming over as a numpty type.smileydevil

Jon - Laser Engines13/06/2018 15:41:04
3920 forum posts
151 photos

It sounds a bit more reasonable now but the wing section of the pup will still hold it back.

For what you want i recommend a wots wot xl with a 150-180 size 4 stroke (or equivalent). A customer (Tim where are you??) loaned me his 155 powered example for me to 'wring out' and it performed exactly as you describe. It wasnt missle fast, didnt have unlimted vertical, but it was smooth and solid. You could thrash it a bit, but frankly it looked better swooping around the various manoeuvers. It landed slowly as well and was generally very nice to fly.

Bobby13/06/2018 17:58:48
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53 forum posts
85 photos

Hi cuban8. Thanks for the input especially the given thrust of 9lbs which is the exact weight of the Pup (1lb over design weight). Now's there a crazy thought prop hanging laugh.

Hi Geoff. Thanks also for input, as for selling any of my models, people only want them for a song will not pay a fair price, so I have put up in the loft 63" spit 63"p40 and a 42" ultimate all de-commissioned with the request to my son when I croak it, do what you like with it all, burn it, land fill whatever. I will not subsidize someone else's modelling guess that makes me a grumpy old sod (sorry meant so and so).wink

Hi Jon. Thanks again for input, think I will remain committed too this, if only as a learning curve.surprise Bobby

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