|Andy C||20/06/2018 20:29:18|
|73 forum posts|
I have built my last couple of kits using mainly aliphatic glue. However, I am still not sure how long I need to leave the glue to go off, so end up doing a very small amount and then leaving until the next day before doing a little more. About 30 years ago when I was originally introduced as a kid to RC by a neighbour, I remember he used to use finger nail glue from boots I assume mainly for speed. I was therefore curious to know how much of my next kit (Slow Poke Sport 40) could be put together using cyano instead of the aliphatic in order to keep the pace up and interest alive?
|Jon - Laser Engines||20/06/2018 20:39:21|
|3837 forum posts|
I cyano everything other than engine mounts, undercarriage mounts, wing braces and tails. Anything with ply in it really.
I have heard all the stories about brittle joins with cyano and while it may be true strictly speaking it make no difference to me.
If I have hit the ground hard enough for my cyano join to break then its all got a bit wrong anyway and I don't see that the choice of glue really matters that much
|Don Fry||20/06/2018 21:11:09|
2512 forum posts
Structurally, Jon is right.
But, with cyno, a few seconds after application, that's set. Cyno construction is like the carpenters rule, position twice, glue once.
225 forum posts
When building my Uno Wot I tested 2 cyano glues. The cheap stuff that is classed as medium is really brittle and cracked easy it's called bond it industrial adhesive. But the pink thin Zap brand is way way better nowhere near as brittle and I think it is stronger also. I used aliphatic glue but I tacked the sheets down with CA to hold them down instead of using weights so I could just get on with the rest of it. Worked really well. I think using CA is fine just buy a quality brand like Zap. I keep mine in a small beer fridge and before I use it I switch it on and cool the glue. I don't know if it improves the joint on wood but on my rc car tyres if the glue is cool going on it does not fog and seems to give a neater finnish.
|Nigel R||20/06/2018 22:57:27|
1297 forum posts
|Another cyano user here. Get things in place, whip round and tack it together, final check then apply properly. Like Don says measure twice, no second chances with this stuff. |
Doublers and sheeting I use contact adhesive and aliphatic for ply stuff. I'm not worried about the brittle joints thing either. Balsa is a tiny bit soft and everything seems to hold together plenty well enough.
Edited By Nigel R on 20/06/2018 23:00:10
|Geoff Sleath||20/06/2018 23:44:22|
2668 forum posts
I use Cyano sparingly and tend to use aliphatic mostly. There are several club members who can't use cyano at all because they have developed an allergic reaction so I try to moderate my own use in the hope of being able to use it when a quick bond is needed.
I buy it from our local Poundland and it seems as effective as more expensive varieties. There are 2 sizes of bottles. The smaller ones I reserve for use as emergency repairs at the filed and keep an unstarted container in my toolbox and replace it after it's been opened.
|Piers Bowlan||21/06/2018 06:11:44|
1255 forum posts
Balsa to Balsa, I use cyano generally. For balsa sheets edge to edge (for wing skins) I use superphatic, so it can be sanded easily. For ply or spruce to balsa joints I use epoxy. Just make sure that you have plenty of ventilation when using cyano.
|Peter Miller||21/06/2018 08:16:22|
9124 forum posts
Many years ago I used to use Cyano all the time.
The problem was that the fumes started to affect my eyes and nose badly so I gave up.
Now I only use the thin stuff for CA hinges and the odourless for a few jobs.
So I would say go ahead, it is great but if it starts to affect your eye etc STOP
|fly boy3||21/06/2018 08:49:35|
3207 forum posts
I agree with Peter 100percent. Cyano can also effect your breathing. Please be careful.
|Tim Flyer||21/06/2018 09:36:55|
726 forum posts
I use cyano here and there for tacking bits together and wood hardening but not as a “general adhesive”. It’s weakness is that it is affected by solvents especially some fuels and isn’t very water resistant and is not very flexible. It also seems harder than aliphatic to sand plus has all the fume safety issues mentioned above. For me I would rather be patient and use aliphatic as the main wood construction adhesive . All the adhesives have their uses and I keep each type. Gorilla glue is great in foam and filling voids etc. In engine bays and when laminating wood in them I use epoxy but obviously PVA can also work well there.
|Tim Flyer||21/06/2018 10:05:22|
726 forum posts
When I started I used to use Cascamite wood glue which was waterproof but had to be mixed from powder. Great strong hard glue but slower than aliphatic and little initial “grab” unless quite thick. It is also ok to sand. I think it’s now only used by boat builders and house builders . It’s so quite cheap relative to most modelling glues.
|Richard Wood||21/06/2018 10:23:31|
1066 forum posts
I use cyano rarely now because of the reasons Peter & fly boy have mentioned.
|David Mellor||21/06/2018 10:39:38|
699 forum posts
Yep, me too.... same as Peter and fly boy. I seem to have developed an allergic reaction to it, affecting eyes, breathing and producing awful headaches. But... I still use it occasionally as long as it is for simple tasks out doors where I can hold my breath.
Edited By David Mellor on 21/06/2018 10:40:02
|Geoff Sleath||21/06/2018 11:07:10|
2668 forum posts
I'm surprised Cascamite has been used for building model aircraft. The only times I've used it was when I decked a racing dinghy and for dinghy repairs because of its being waterproof. I recently built a Thames sailing barge hull (1200mm long) and used Wudcare 5 minute PVA which is waterproof enough for a boat not in the water continuously.
The only cyano I knew of at the time was an adhesive called Eastman 910 which was used at Rolls Royce to attach strain gauges for component testing. I think it was quite expensive.
Edited By Geoff Sleath on 21/06/2018 11:07:41
|David Mellor||21/06/2018 11:12:33|
699 forum posts
Interestingly, a form of cyanoacrylate (N-butyl-2 cyanoacrylate) is used in surgery to stem otherwise uncontrollable bleeding in thoracic areas. Mainly, it is very successful. But there are numerous publications on adverse lung reactions have spontaneously arisen consistent with severe allergic reaction.
Mainly those reactions seem to correlate with ex-smokers, smokers and workers with prior exposure to cyanoacrylates.
Also.... worth thinking about.... cyano fumes may condense and set (because it is moisture sensitive) in lung tissue.
|5487 forum posts|
The answer is to use PVA or Aliphatic/ Superphatic and to work on several areas of the model at once, leaving one section of the fuselage to set whilst working on tailplane, wing etc. Several small building boards ( plasterboard is useful) help this process.
539 forum posts
I couldn't agree more, KC. Aliphatic is my main glue, epoxy for joining wings, landing gear rails and firewall, and cyano for little bits.
Having said that, if the kit is good in terms of interlocking parts (as Great Planes use to be), you may be ok with cyano 100%. Some years ago I built an Extra 300 .60 the GP, all with cyano, and I never had a problem.
On the same subject (and sorry Andy for robbing your thread) do you use Gorilla brown (the honey-type stuff) as substitute of epoxy / high stress glue? I have never tried but I think it might work?
|Nigel R||21/06/2018 11:53:20|
1297 forum posts
Cyano is much much more pleasant to use when you use the dropper tubes and apply very small drops. The bottles as they arrive from the shop are useless. They result in flooded joints, which causes masses of heat buildup - and fumes.
The thin tubes are worth their weight in gold and transform the stuff. Using tubes you get the right amount of glue, and avoid the excess heat, and best yet avoid most of the fumes.
Breathe out slowly over joints that have not yet dried. The warmth and moisture in your breath makes the stuff set quickly.
Edit to remove swear word
Edited By Steve Hargreaves - Moderator on 21/06/2018 21:01:06
|Tim Flyer||21/06/2018 11:59:27|
726 forum posts
Yes I don’t think anyone uses cascamite . I used it as I was building boats😉
|Stuart Z||21/06/2018 20:30:37|
290 forum posts
Yes, Cyano can be very quick - I built a Flair Hooligan over a weekend, including the trip to the shop to buy the kit!
But on another build I found out, in a very hot shed, just how nasty the stuff gets when it evaporates in an enclosed space. Now I online use cyano sparingly and on few occasions.
Nowadays, I use aliphatic and 5 & 30 minute epoxy for the build. As said above, you can build different parts at the same time. During the summer days, you can make good progress. During the winter it can be quite slow. However, I think the build finishes up stronger if you use aliphatic/epoxy glues.
Just my view.
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