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Quicker build using Cyano?

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Andy C20/06/2018 20:29:18
84 forum posts

I have built my last couple of kits using mainly aliphatic glue. However, I am still not sure how long I need to leave the glue to go off, so end up doing a very small amount and then leaving until the next day before doing a little more. About 30 years ago when I was originally introduced as a kid to RC by a neighbour, I remember he used to use finger nail glue from boots I assume mainly for speed. I was therefore curious to know how much of my next kit (Slow Poke Sport 40) could be put together using cyano instead of the aliphatic in order to keep the pace up and interest alive?

Thanks

Jon - Laser Engines20/06/2018 20:39:21
3957 forum posts
153 photos

I cyano everything other than engine mounts, undercarriage mounts, wing braces and tails. Anything with ply in it really.

I have heard all the stories about brittle joins with cyano and while it may be true strictly speaking it make no difference to me.

If I have hit the ground hard enough for my cyano join to break then its all got a bit wrong anyway and I don't see that the choice of glue really matters that much

Don Fry20/06/2018 21:11:09
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2584 forum posts
30 photos

Structurally, Jon is right.

But, with cyno, a few seconds after application, that's set. Cyno construction is like the carpenters rule, position twice, glue once.

TartanMac20/06/2018 21:21:33
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229 forum posts
142 photos

When building my Uno Wot I tested 2 cyano glues. The cheap stuff that is classed as medium is really brittle and cracked easy it's called bond it industrial adhesive. But the pink thin Zap brand is way way better nowhere near as brittle and I think it is stronger also. I used aliphatic glue but I tacked the sheets down with CA to hold them down instead of using weights so I could just get on with the rest of it. Worked really well. I think using CA is fine just buy a quality brand like Zap. I keep mine in a small beer fridge and before I use it I switch it on and cool the glue. I don't know if it improves the joint on wood but on my rc car tyres if the glue is cool going on it does not fog and seems to give a neater finnish.

Nigel R20/06/2018 22:57:27
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1549 forum posts
336 photos
Another cyano user here. Get things in place, whip round and tack it together, final check then apply properly. Like Don says measure twice, no second chances with this stuff.

Doublers and sheeting I use contact adhesive and aliphatic for ply stuff. I'm not worried about the brittle joints thing either. Balsa is a tiny bit soft and everything seems to hold together plenty well enough.

Edited By Nigel R on 20/06/2018 23:00:10

Geoff Sleath20/06/2018 23:44:22
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2762 forum posts
202 photos

I use Cyano sparingly and tend to use aliphatic mostly. There are several club members who can't use cyano at all because they have developed an allergic reaction so I try to moderate my own use in the hope of being able to use it when a quick bond is needed.

I buy it from our local Poundland and it seems as effective as more expensive varieties. There are 2 sizes of bottles. The smaller ones I reserve for use as emergency repairs at the filed and keep an unstarted container in my toolbox and replace it after it's been opened.

Geoff

Piers Bowlan21/06/2018 06:11:44
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1380 forum posts
37 photos

Balsa to Balsa, I use cyano generally. For balsa sheets edge to edge (for wing skins) I use superphatic, so it can be sanded easily. For ply or spruce to balsa joints I use epoxy. Just make sure that you have plenty of ventilation when using cyano.

Peter Miller21/06/2018 08:16:22
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9287 forum posts
1086 photos
10 articles

Many years ago I used to use Cyano all the time.

The problem was that the fumes started to affect my eyes and nose badly so I gave up.

Now I only use the thin stuff for CA hinges and the odourless for a few jobs.

So I would say go ahead, it is great but if it starts to affect your eye etc STOP

fly boy321/06/2018 08:49:35
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3254 forum posts
11 photos

I agree with Peter 100percent. Cyano can also effect your breathing. Please be careful.

Tim Flyer21/06/2018 09:36:55
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762 forum posts
112 photos

I use cyano here and there for tacking bits together and wood hardening but not as a “general adhesive”. It’s weakness is that it is affected by solvents especially some fuels and isn’t very water resistant and is not very flexible. It also seems harder than aliphatic to sand plus has all the fume safety issues mentioned above. For me I would rather be patient and use aliphatic as the main wood construction adhesive . All the adhesives have their uses and I keep each type. Gorilla glue is great in foam and filling voids etc. In engine bays and when laminating wood in them I use epoxy but obviously PVA can also work well there.

Tim Flyer21/06/2018 10:05:22
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762 forum posts
112 photos

When I started I used to use Cascamite wood glue which was waterproof but had to be mixed from powder. Great strong hard glue but slower than aliphatic and little initial “grab” unless quite thick. It is also ok to sand. I think it’s now only used by boat builders and house builders . It’s so quite cheap relative to most modelling glues.

Richard Wood21/06/2018 10:23:31
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1074 forum posts
163 photos

I use cyano rarely now because of the reasons Peter & fly boy have mentioned.
The fumes can make you feel ill if used in a room with little ventilation.
The heavy cold symptoms are not worth the reduced build time over PVA or aliphatic.
Occasionally use it for glueing wing ribs onto spars.

David Mellor21/06/2018 10:39:38
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859 forum posts
260 photos

Yep, me too.... same as Peter and fly boy. I seem to have developed an allergic reaction to it, affecting eyes, breathing and producing awful headaches. But... I still use it occasionally as long as it is for simple tasks out doors where I can hold my breath.

Edited By David Mellor on 21/06/2018 10:40:02

Geoff Sleath21/06/2018 11:07:10
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2762 forum posts
202 photos
Posted by Timothy Harris 1 on 21/06/2018 10:05:22:

When I started I used to use Cascamite wood glue which was waterproof but had to be mixed from powder. Great strong hard glue but slower than aliphatic and little initial “grab” unless quite thick. It is also ok to sand. I think it’s now only used by boat builders and house builders . It’s so quite cheap relative to most modelling glues.

I'm surprised Cascamite has been used for building model aircraft. The only times I've used it was when I decked a racing dinghy and for dinghy repairs because of its being waterproof. I recently built a Thames sailing barge hull (1200mm long) and used Wudcare 5 minute PVA which is waterproof enough for a boat not in the water continuously.

The only cyano I knew of at the time was an adhesive called Eastman 910 which was used at Rolls Royce to attach strain gauges for component testing. I think it was quite expensive.

Geoff

Edited By Geoff Sleath on 21/06/2018 11:07:41

David Mellor21/06/2018 11:12:33
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859 forum posts
260 photos

Interestingly, a form of cyanoacrylate (N-butyl-2 cyanoacrylate) is used in surgery to stem otherwise uncontrollable bleeding in thoracic areas. Mainly, it is very successful. But there are numerous publications on adverse lung reactions have spontaneously arisen consistent with severe allergic reaction.

Mainly those reactions seem to correlate with ex-smokers, smokers and workers with prior exposure to cyanoacrylates.

Also.... worth thinking about.... cyano fumes may condense and set (because it is moisture sensitive) in lung tissue.

kc21/06/2018 11:30:45
5570 forum posts
163 photos

The answer is to use PVA or Aliphatic/ Superphatic and to work on several areas of the model at once, leaving one section of the fuselage to set whilst working on tailplane, wing etc. Several small building boards ( plasterboard is useful) help this process.

AVC21/06/2018 11:44:11
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539 forum posts
147 photos
Posted by kc on 21/06/2018 11:30:45:

The answer is to use PVA or Aliphatic/ Superphatic and to work on several areas of the model at once, leaving one section of the fuselage to set whilst working on tailplane, wing etc. Several small building boards ( plasterboard is useful) help this process.

I couldn't agree more, KC. Aliphatic is my main glue, epoxy for joining wings, landing gear rails and firewall, and cyano for little bits.

Having said that, if the kit is good in terms of interlocking parts (as Great Planes use to be), you may be ok with cyano 100%. Some years ago I built an Extra 300 .60 the GP, all with cyano, and I never had a problem.

On the same subject (and sorry Andy for robbing your thread) do you use Gorilla brown (the honey-type stuff) as substitute of epoxy / high stress glue? I have never tried but I think it might work? thinking

Nigel R21/06/2018 11:53:20
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1549 forum posts
336 photos

Cyano is much much more pleasant to use when you use the dropper tubes and apply very small drops. The bottles as they arrive from the shop are useless. They result in flooded joints, which causes masses of heat buildup - and fumes.

The thin tubes are worth their weight in gold and transform the stuff. Using tubes you get the right amount of glue, and avoid the excess heat, and best yet avoid most of the fumes.

Breathe out slowly over joints that have not yet dried. The warmth and moisture in your breath makes the stuff set quickly.

Edit to remove swear word

Edited By Steve Hargreaves - Moderator on 21/06/2018 21:01:06

Tim Flyer21/06/2018 11:59:27
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762 forum posts
112 photos

Yes I don’t think anyone uses cascamite . I used it as I was building boats😉

Stuart Z21/06/2018 20:30:37
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311 forum posts

Hi

Yes, Cyano can be very quick - I built a Flair Hooligan over a weekend, including the trip to the shop to buy the kit!

But on another build I found out, in a very hot shed, just how nasty the stuff gets when it evaporates in an enclosed space. Now I online use cyano sparingly and on few occasions.

Nowadays, I use aliphatic and 5 & 30 minute epoxy for the build. As said above, you can build different parts at the same time. During the summer days, you can make good progress. During the winter it can be quite slow. However, I think the build finishes up stronger if you use aliphatic/epoxy glues.

Just my view.

S

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