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Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator22/08/2018 14:16:24
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Right now the government has a consultation open on how the law will be shaped to control the use of drones in the UK - and remember "drones" includes us for the purposes of this - whatever we may think about that.

Now, think back to last time - the EASA poposals etc. Only just over 100 of us bothered to repond to the consultation. What does that look like to government? I'll tell you what it looks like - it looks like we are weak and uninterested!

When the proposed legislation came in we all stated bleating "It isn't fair", "It's wrong". But its too late then, we had our chance to express our view and by-and-large we failed to take it.

Thanks to some good relationaships with CAA and sterling work by the representative bodies - we got away with it. That time. But don't bet on getting away with it again! The powers that be are not going to tolerate us behaving like sploit kids throwing a tantrum. I (and more importantly the BMFA) believe we have to fully engage with this consultation and make sure that our legitimate views and interests are fully represented.

How do you do this? Easy, follow THIS link to the BMFA page where you will find full guidance on how to respond. You have until 17th Sept to do so - don't miss the deadline!

Now a couple of suggestions:

Don't make your response a "rant against drones" - they will simply dismiss that. It might make you feel better for a couple days - but in the long run it won't help. Make your response based on your knowledge as an aeromodeller, be reasonable and state your case clearly. That will get us respect.

Final point: Please, Please, Please do not turn this thread into another 45 page ramble about drones and MR's - the situation is was it is - our job is the be positive and come out of this the best we can. The consultation is the topic of the thread let's be clear about that.

So, armed, get your pen out and let's show them that we are reasonable people and a substantial body of well informed opinion - go for it guys!

BEB

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 22/08/2018 14:35:59

J D 822/08/2018 15:07:10
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Well I had a go at THIS and got halfway through but the questions were about drone things I no nothing about.

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator22/08/2018 15:20:26
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JD8

But bear in mind - would they have an impact on your activities? That's what you need to consider. Otherwise they will simply make rules that suit the commercial boys. OK those rules may not may not explicitly talk about you and me - but they will certainly effect you and me.

Let's look at an example - not specific to this consultation, just a general example. Suppose they start to talk about flight registration and planing systems? You might think "Nowt to do with me" - but if the rule were to say ALL flights must be cleared with a central body - then it sure is going to effect us! We would need to head that off, expalining that we operate from fixed sites - not point to point - and that we have done this sucessfully for many many years

We need to keep vigilant and think laterally on this one.

BEB

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator22/08/2018 15:22:40
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By the way - if anyone does need any explainations of terms or regimes etc. just ask here. There are many people on the foum well up to speed on this and I'm absolutely sure they would be very willing to help. That's what the thread is for.

BEB

Chris Bott - Moderator22/08/2018 15:24:27
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I think the idea is to read the LMA/BMFA/SMA document that has all their preferred answers and answer with those. Using your own words to say the same thing in the text boxes if you wish.

This document. (.pdf downloads when clicked)

That way the government gets a consistent answer that's aligned to our associations negotiating stance.

The Wright Stuff22/08/2018 15:41:30
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If the length of the survey looks off-putting (as it initially did to me) then it works out at about 3 questions per day between now and 17th Sept.

I'm going to answer a few questions every time I log into this forum...

Peter Christy22/08/2018 16:33:55
1556 forum posts

I got 80% of the way through it, and the site crashed!!! 40 mins wasted!

Hope their FINS system is better than this!

Grrr!

--

Pete

 

Edited By Pete B - Moderator on 22/08/2018 21:31:59

Martin Harris22/08/2018 16:42:45
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I completed this last night without undue difficulty so hopefully it was a one-off Pete. Did you check to see if your answers had been saved as they were input?

I have to admit missing the "guidance" document but my answers were largely in line with the recommendations.

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator22/08/2018 16:53:26
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Well I've just done 35% of the survey in about 30 mins, so not so bad. I've saved what I've done so far and I'll go back to it.

The BMFA "crib sheet" is really handy!

BEB

Former Member22/08/2018 16:53:55

[This posting has been removed]

J D 822/08/2018 17:18:10
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BEB

I do think it does affect us,just do not the knowledge to answer said questions.Will read the document recommended by Chris and give it another go.

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator22/08/2018 18:20:24
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Yeap, that BMFA doc is excellent. Basically all the "best answers" are in there for you, complete with explainations. All you have to do is recast them in your own words.

BEB

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 22/08/2018 18:34:03

cymaz22/08/2018 18:31:45
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Had the survey through the LMA. Took about 10/15 mins to finish. There are a lot of questions that , in my opinion, seem to repeat themselves.

Peter Christy22/08/2018 18:48:43
1556 forum posts

Managed to complete it, second time around. You would think that there would be a "save and continue" option in a long and complex document like this. Doesn't give you much faith in the authorities grasp of technology......

Cymaz: Perhaps they didn't like the answer you gave the first time.......! wink

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Pete

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator22/08/2018 18:52:05
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Peter, there is a "save and continue" option? You just have to enter your name and email and they save where you are up to and send you a link to get back in again at the "right" place!

BEB

Cliff Whittaker22/08/2018 18:54:16
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I imagine a lot of people will groan (or worse) when they see the length of the BMFA, LMA guidance document and the length of the questionnaire - But if you follow the guide it should take you less than an hour to complete.

If you think that is too much, consider the few dedicated individuals who spent many hours of their own time going through all of this and produced the guide to make it easy for you. They did that because responding to this consultation in large numbers is very important for the future of our hobby.

Please lend your support.

Martin Dance 122/08/2018 18:59:06
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I completed the survey last night. My overall conclusion is that whoever the author of this survey was he/she is either a very junior or very naive member of the DofT. Clearly the author(s) have very little knowledge of the operation of conventional fixed wing or helicopters or indeed of multi rotors or the technology that supports it. It seems that for many of the proposed 'solutions' to the drone 'problem' the proposals are a very large and unwieldy sledge hammer to crack at best a miniscule or non existent nut.

It also seems that the powers that be already have at their disposal enough law to achieve what this consultation is alluding to.

The section on detection and effecting drones looks like science fiction. If we are to assume that future legislation is to enable the powers that be to counter the potential criminal use of multi rotors, the type of system that appears to be being proposed is unlikely to work or it could seriously backfire. Scenario, I am a terrorist hell bent on dropping some IED on a location that is bound to get maximum publicity. I develop and programme my multi copter to do one of two things if it encounters a jamming signal. 1. to immediately detonate and if this is in an urban area collateral damage is virtually assured even if the planned target is missed. 2. On detection of an interfering signal the device reverts to its internal programming and heads off to some pre-planned landing spot to be saved for another day.

The final art of this survey about growth in the use of multi rotors also seem over optimistic. If the exoectation is that many drones will be used for routine delivery tasks for example. the chances are that most will fly along a relatively narrow corridor relatively close to built up areas. How long will it be before protest groups are formed to lobby against such events. Not long when you consider that almost all infrastructure projects meet opposition.

The bit on FINs seems somewhat unnecessary. If there is a requirement to file in effect a flight plan, if only moments prior to take off, will there be a need ti withdraw the flight plan if the flight doesn't happen?

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator22/08/2018 20:26:28
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I think you have a point there Martin. I have long believed that, while I have the greatest respect for the knowledge of the CAA, their bosses in DfT definitely need to brush up on a few things!

But actually this is OK, in a sense. As long as DfT are taking advice from their own experts in CAA and as long as we have the opportunity to explain (patiently) why these ideas should not apply to us, then things can work in our favour. But of course that will only happen if we make our voice heard and in doing so give legitimacy to BMFA's claims to represent our views at the negotiating table.

BEB

john stones 122/08/2018 20:35:05
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Read my email this morning about it, I'll pen/type a reply tomorrow. yes

iqon22/08/2018 20:45:52
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all done, nearly all done, got bored.

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