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Danny Fenton11/06/2019 20:21:53
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9208 forum posts
4055 photos

Thanks Martian I will keep those in mind, the nose alloy tape has already been polished and even flatted to see if that would help, it has not. Rustoleum is not very durable apparently and being an enamel I believe will react to many solvent based cleacoats. We will see, I have been meaning to try the chrome paints for a while.

I was thinking of a dusting of very weak grey/clearcoat satin, I had to do something similar on my Chipmunk to take the edge of the silver on that. All good info and gives food for thought.

Cheers

Danny

Martin Fane11/06/2019 21:46:55
304 forum posts
313 photos

Hi Danny

Looking back at your wing servos, are they opposite handed on left and right wings ie mounted opposite ways up ?

I was wondering if this is needed to keep the RDS shaft in the correct position for the boxes ?

I was thinking of having the servos mounted so that the screws are removed from the wing lower surface side, just in case of having to open up for access, would be less visible on the lower surface ??

Cheers

Martin

Danny Fenton11/06/2019 23:11:59
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9208 forum posts
4055 photos

Hi Martin yes they are. These servo lugs are central so it makes no difference which way you go, both inboard or both outboard. Good idea mounting from underneath.

Cheers

Danny

Silver Wolf14/06/2019 20:59:32
168 forum posts
151 photos

Hi Danny,

With regards the silk, I used a standard White Silk. 5mm Pongee 100% silk from Homecrafts @ £4.99 per sq m. It was used on the chippy, my first attempt at silk over tisssue. very pleased with result.

Regards SW

Danny Fenton14/06/2019 23:02:20
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9208 forum posts
4055 photos

It will be good to see your results SW, everything I could find about pongee silk was about how it was woven. And tbh I disregarded it as too heavy.

I have samples now of 4 types of silk. Esaki light £18 sq/m, Beckfords (too heavy at 5.5 momme £18 sq/m, Herringtons 4201/i (recomended by Bill Dennis £17.49 sq/m. And lastly a 3.5 momme silk chiffon from an Ebayer at £5.99 sq/m

I will let you know how they work out once I have tried them.

218 esaki and karrington silk.jpg

217 ebay silk 5-99.jpg

As you can see there is not much difference in the weave, however the Esaki is very much stiffer, almost like it has been ironed with starch??

I will use a small piece from each (not the Beckfords used on the cabane struts) on a test structure perhaps an elevator half, and see how much dope it absorbs, and the final surface texture. I will also be interested in the weight obviously.

Cheers

Danny

Silver Wolf19/06/2019 19:33:10
168 forum posts
151 photos

Hi Danny

Below is the base tissue

dscn0354.jpg

Silk with one or two coats of dope, mixture of 25% shrinking, 25% non-shrinking and 50% thinners.

dscn0360.jpg

Finished and awaiting detail and primer

dscn0369.jpg

dscn0371.jpg

They are all in a draw in the loft/model room and still look good after a year. I will complete the chippy after the fury.

Hope this helps in some small way.

Kind Regards

SW

Danny Fenton01/09/2019 20:42:18
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9208 forum posts
4055 photos

Thanks SW looks great, looking forward to doing mine. I am waiting for some polyester tissue to arrive, tissue makes for a slightly more brittle covering. Polyester seems to be the latest thinking..... we will see.

I did say once the Nationals were out of the way I would crack on with mine and the Nat's are indeed out of the way...

The Chipmunk didn't miss a beat, and I put in three solid flights, much better than last year, and scored highest in static, which meant I took Gold in F4b The Miles Sparrow Hawk flew much better, but I risked my flights in the wind and the touch and go was my downfall. Only one good flight wasn't enough. I took Silver in that class, still cannot complain British F4b champion has a nice ring to it.

I hope David Ashby wont mind me posting this piccy he got of me with smug mode engaged:

barkston nats 2019.jpg

So on to the Fury.

Well the Nat's highlighted a few shortcomings in the Control Line event. Mainly every time anybody wandered over nothing was happening. People kept asking, have we missed it? And if you weren't on the flight line at 8 am on Monday morning then yes you would have.

So, the Fury will now be finished as a demo model for control line, and a fun model for R/C nothing more. We have all documented the inaccuracies in the design, not the designers fault, it was great for the 70's, but not good enough for competition these days. This means I can just get on with it. I am going to have one last go with the litho plate, if that doesn't go well then I am going to probably do one of the painted Furys, probably the South African example 28 N of No1 Sqdn.

So with a visible light at the end of the tunnel I am ploughing on. First I glassed the upper cowl section, in preparation for either paint or litho plate.

226.jpg

While that is drying I have cold formed some Litho, the problem is the cowl tapers slightly at the front. So I have used a rounded object to bowl the forward section of the litho plate.

225.jpg

So far I haven't got it to shape enough but it is getting there. If my patience hold out then great, if not then it is going to be paint.

I have also been thinking about a model to have a crack at F4C, and the front runner.......drum roll........another Chipmunk at 1/4 scale, from my own drawings

Cheers

Danny

Edited By Danny Fenton on 01/09/2019 20:46:05

Danny Fenton01/09/2019 22:56:33
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9208 forum posts
4055 photos

A little more done, gun chutes/troughs cut in the forward section and then glassed.

227.jpg

While waiting for that lot to set I cut the final alloy panel for the upper fuselage centre section.

228.jpg

All glued in place

Cheers

Danny

Danny Fenton06/09/2019 14:19:17
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9208 forum posts
4055 photos

A little more done on the Fury. I did prove that the top cowl could be shaped from lithoplate, but it was a lot more work than I think I want to spend. I found a tape that would stick the plate on really well, made by Ultratape, its a very thin and very strong double sided tape. But as i have said I am going to paint mine now.

Moved on to the tailwheel. The oroginal subject had a skid but the two camo versions I am looking at now both have a tailwheel. This will also improve the ground handling so one needed to be made.

229.jpg

It is made from two shaped pieces of piano wire. The arms are bulked up with tissue cut into strips and wrapped around the piano wire using Deluxe materials tissue paste.

The wheel was a cheap HobbyKing item but using my Dapping blocks I was able to cut and then dish some circles from lithoplate. these were stuck to the wheels and holes drilled with a needle file.

The two piano wire arms are joined together, trapping the wheel between them. The whole lot is then pressed into a snug fitting alloy tube that has been liberally coated with JB Weld.

Hopefully this will stand up to the rigors of flight

Cheers

Danny

Martyn K06/09/2019 14:55:29
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4980 forum posts
3624 photos

Hi Danny

Glad to see that you are working on this again and well done on winning CL scale at the Nationals

Have you given up on lith for the cowl now?

Martyn

Danny Fenton06/09/2019 15:17:06
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9208 forum posts
4055 photos

Hi Martyn, thanks, I was really pleased with winning F4b

I did figure out how to apply litho to the cowl, but its more work than i want to do on this one.

Cheers

Danny

Foxfan06/09/2019 15:56:49
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836 forum posts
6 photos

Danny,

I have come late to this project. I am an inveterate metal basher and have often used litho plate, but always found it a little too crispy to knock a compound shape into.

However I was then given a roll of malleable aluminium which is marvellously mouldable as its name may suggest.

But, for some uses, the best quality ally I have found to be the sheets available from the K&S Metal Centre in most model, even some toy shops. It's stiff, yet very ready to be beaten into shapes. I've used it to make a 1/32nd scale radiator cowling for an all aluminium Bloody Mary Hill climb slot car and have also used it for a complete Morgan Aero 3 wheeler body in the same scale, including, once again the nose cowling, which is beaten over a carved Ureol pattern, although I have also use Steamed Pear for paterns.

There is now also a superb aluminium solder which is the same hardness as the sheets you weld with it, whereas earlier Ally solders were rock hard. It's called Aluweld 300. I got a pack to try out from ebay and it worked a treat with my Propane torch, without distortion. The joint (a corner of 2 compound curves) filed and polished invisibly.

Hope this may help.

Martin

Danny Fenton06/09/2019 20:33:38
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9208 forum posts
4055 photos

Hi Martin, good to have you on board, I have never had to join the litho plate but it does sound like Aluweld is worth having on the shelf. You never know when the situation calls for it.

Lithoplate is what you want, it can be a bit hard to find these days, but worth leaving a search running on EBay.

If you rub soap on one side and heat the other side with a blowtorch, once the soap turns black the alloy is aneeled it is then as soft as foil.

The problem is this model is not accurate enough for competition, and that was my objective. So I am not going to invest the additional hours it will take to cover the entire front half of the model in aluminium. It is not that I couldn't do it, but that I wont.

232.jpeg

This shot shows a quick test using .3mm litho over a particularly nasty compound curve and without really trying was able to get it around the curves. The other issue was how to attach the litho, in the past I have used CA but a friend in Aus uses a very strong tape. I wanted to find a similar product and I think I have in this Ultratape.

Anyway on with the tail-wheel, I think I can call it done, following a few fake bolt heads, and a splash of silver.

I have temporarily fitted it in position so you can see its position and strengthening gusset. I will use a separate servo to drive this, then i can mix it with rudder for RC and have it independent for control line.

230.jpg

231a.jpg

Cheers

Danny

Foxfan06/09/2019 20:54:06
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836 forum posts
6 photos

To be honest, Danny, I've never tried annealing ally, whatever I've done with it. I guess I've just been lucky. I made a set of mudguards for my Austin 7 Special without annealing the material, which i started on a wooden "stump", then finished on my English wheel. I keep intending to make a miniature wheel for models.

I have always had the use of malleable or K&S, which I'm assuming is partly annealed, judging by its behaviour. I made a model in 1/12th scale of Miss Britain III, the record boat, all in aluminium, using K&S, panel by panel. I then made a special tool that impressed all the monel metal screws into the surface that the skin of the real boat was affixed to the hollow wooden frame with. 10,000 of them! And each with a wee slot impression in the middle as they were, after all, screws!

I must have a go at softening litho plate. I have LOADS of it, as my son runs it on a printing machine, so I have all I can use.

Good luck with the project and well done with the Chipmunk.

Martin

Danny Fenton06/09/2019 21:04:07
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9208 forum posts
4055 photos

Hi Martin, there are a couple of companies that make small English wheels, I would love to have one.

As the alloy is worked it hardens and you have to re-aneal it. When I made some tail fairings for a Brian Taylor Hurricane I had to repeat the process several times.

You want to watch out saying you have loads of litho-plate, there are many modellers on here that have been searching for it for some time I too have enough to see me out, but that was all acquired many years ago.

Cheers

Danny

Foxfan06/09/2019 21:54:10
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836 forum posts
6 photos

Aluminium actually age hardens rather than work hardens, although it can be a bit difficult to tell the difference. I managed to make the mudguards and wire the edges with out annealing. All I know is the ally sheet was from an air conditioning duct maker.

I asked an offset litho printer chap and he gave me as many sheets as I could carry. I have them somewhere at my daughter's place, but it wouldn't surprise me if the son-in-law hasn't thrown them away.

But I still have the roll of malleable.

Martin

Danny Fenton24/10/2019 00:07:25
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9208 forum posts
4055 photos

actually managed to do some Fury today. As I have added a tail-wheel I needed to make it steerable. Any that I have made free to caster have been a disaster. Because the bulkhead that the tailwheel is mounted on needed a hole for the pushrod, I went for a simple z-bend. This meant the hole could be quite small at just 6mm.

The reason I did not want the steering and rudder on the same servo is that they will be on separate channels. For control line it is advantageous to be able to adjust them separately For R/C the two channels will be mixed together in the Tx.

267.jpg

268.jpg

Cheers

Danny

Martin Fane24/10/2019 09:28:23
304 forum posts
313 photos

Hi Danny

Good to see you back on the build.

Nice tailwheel installation - what diameter is the wheel ?

Any fellow builders attending Gaydon this Sunday ??

cheers

Martin

Silver Wolf24/10/2019 10:59:49
168 forum posts
151 photos

Not sure sure with the lack of progress on my fury (hope to restart soon) that I count as a builder but will be going to Gaydon. Hopefully to get some motivation and inspiration.

Happy to meet up if we arrange time and place.

Regards

SW

Danny Fenton24/10/2019 14:45:17
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9208 forum posts
4055 photos

I am hoping to be there, my RCM&E polo is recognisable. I am not sure where to suggest meeting, the coffee shop tends to be packed!

Cheers

Danny

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