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S1581 Hawker Nimrod MkI

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Martin Fane12/11/2019 22:56:17
312 forum posts
319 photos

Danny

Thanks for the video, very informative. Now to have a go myself.

cheers

Martin

Danny Fenton13/11/2019 10:55:01
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9289 forum posts
4116 photos

Been messing with more of the silk. I am really not impressed with the finish I am getting with the wallpaper past. Just tore of the last lot and have started again with a much weaker solution of paste, lets see how that goes.

The nicest results so far have been obtained using the £5.99 Chiffon silk (I doubt it actually is silk behaves like polyester, and the price would reflect that perhaps?) That is difficult to get the edges to wrap around unless at least three coats of dope have been applied. But at the moment the chiffon is giving a better finish that the Harrington silk.....

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The rudder covered in Chiffon (silk?) and one coat of dope.

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Just waiting for this last test using wallpaper paste to dry.....

Cheers

Danny

Danny Fenton13/11/2019 12:10:24
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9289 forum posts
4116 photos

This is all proving very tedious, but interesting none the less.

I have sacrificed a small square of Esaki lightweight Silk, that Andy Sephton kindly sent me.

I have pasted that on as a test, and it went on easily and looks great. I am sure the issue is the silk i am using is too coarse. So even though it is recommended by Bill Dennis, its not a substitute for Esaki.

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Harrington 4020i

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Esaki Lightweight silk.

The section of Esaki looks more like a second layer of tissue, and not as hard wearing as the cheap chiffon over tissue. I am tempted to now draw a line under the silk over tissue as Esaki is expensive, difficult to get, and not terribly strong.

Do I persevere with perfecting this newly discovered technique of polyester chiffon over tissue. I think I might.....

Cheers

Danny

Danny Fenton13/11/2019 18:50:14
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9289 forum posts
4116 photos

Part 2 of the silk over tissue video:

Cheers
Danny
Tony Bennett13/11/2019 20:46:12
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5080 forum posts
129 photos

i cant get my silkish to go on at all smooth.

have given up and thrown the model in the bin.

Tony B

Danny Fenton13/11/2019 23:32:25
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9289 forum posts
4116 photos

Hi Tony, well my lovely 3.5 momme silk wont either. Did you find some genuine Esaki? It goes on like tissue.

So you are in good company. But please don't bin the model, there's a good chap we will fly these together next year.

So I have spent another £20 on even more silk. Getting fed up with the costs..... This time I am trying to find something more like a silk tissue or gauze. Andy Sephton has been asking all his friends and the conscensus of opinion is that Esaki is rare, expensive, but the right product for the job. If only we could find an equivalent...

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So as an alternate I have tried, double layering tissue, with opposite grain. I have heard some of the free flight guys do this. certainly seems a lot tougher, but would a heavyweight tissue be better? If anybody has any thoughts then please chip in?

Alas if you watched the video you will see that the polyester chiffon worked, however, I have no idea where it came from, and I haven't enough to do the whole model Mmmm a thought has just struck me.... could it be nylon I wonder.....

Anyway

Bed time

Danny Fenton14/11/2019 10:20:37
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9289 forum posts
4116 photos

Okay following the epiphany and Doh! moment, of course the material is nylon. And as soon I made that leap was able to find the receipt for it! I bought it back in 2014 for a control line project.

So maybe nylon over tissue is an idea? Nylon on its own really sucks up dope, but with the tissue underneath it is fine with just one coat.

I blame Martian for all these senior moments....

Anyway i am going to have a go at stretching a nylon stocking over a doped and tissue covered wing, see how that goes You never know I may have invented a new technique, or have you seen it done before?

Cheers

Danny

Martian14/11/2019 10:49:29
2255 forum posts
1091 photos

I feel so terribly hurt 😭 ,anyway think of all the practice you are getting . In the past i successfully used lightweight ripstop nylon as used for kites i think fixed in place with dope then doped the surface it produced a drum tight skin with excellent strength 💪 ,👽 may the force be with me

Martyn K14/11/2019 11:33:00
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4998 forum posts
3658 photos

We used to use double covering of lightweight modelspan as a very good alternative to hw modelspan Danny. It was a little lighter as less dope was used but tougher and less prone to splitting.

In free flight, the latest material to use is the stuff they cover kites with. I have forgotten what the trade name is. Comes in a wonderful selection of colours and is very light but I think it has a separate cross weave which would be difficult to hide.

Martyn

Martian14/11/2019 13:08:13
2255 forum posts
1091 photos

Can't imagine what your wife thinks of this silk fetish

Danny Fenton14/11/2019 14:43:07
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9289 forum posts
4116 photos

Some interesting ideas chaps, thanks for that. Yes ripstop nylon, good shout Martian/Martyn

I have finished applying tissue to all the tail surfaces, and am about to cover the rear of the fuselage.

So more of an update later

Cheers

Danny

Danny Fenton14/11/2019 17:12:09
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9289 forum posts
4116 photos

Was a little overambitious covering the rear of the fus, tried to do the sides and top in one piece.....

Just have to see what happens when it dries. May have to take it all of and start again.....

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Fingers firmly crossed!

Danny Fenton15/11/2019 09:24:26
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9289 forum posts
4116 photos

If anybody is curious how that went here is an hour long video. No commentary just a "fly on the workshop wall" video. They are interesting to do, so I will try and do more.

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The tissue was attached on each side at this lower longeron, and at the forward sheeting, and the former F11. I felt it important that the tissue was not attached over the longerons until after the whole area had been water shrunk.

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Unfortunately I was too ambitous in trying to do such a large and complex shape in one go, and had a nasty loose area. I had no choice but to cut the tissue down the centre, attach the tissue neatly to the longerons either side of centre and then patch the gap. Its a shame but there you go. The rib tapes will probably be from thick tissue. They are quite subtle on the pre-pinked tape aircraft.

Cheers

Danny

Danny Fenton15/11/2019 23:46:45
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9289 forum posts
4116 photos

After adding two coats of 50/50 dope/thinner and realising that the pores of the tissue were still open I spoke to Andy S. He told me that it was the tissue its not the best.

I had a look through my stock and found some genuine Jap Tissue. The grain on this tissue is vere close, and the tissue more like wax paper! Nedless to say after an hour I peeled it off and abandoned the idea. I have always applied tissue wet, and brushed neat dope through the edges of the tissue to stick it down. With Jap tissue, you dope the airframe as usual, but because the dope will not penetrate the paper, you need to use thinners to soften the dope beneath and use that so stick down the tissue.

Anyway by this time I had applied a second layer of my Tetley teabag tissue. One coat of dope and it was pretty well sealed. I will give it a couple of coats of banana oil in the morning

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Soon time to break out the L285 resin I reckon...

 

Cheers

Danny

Edited By Danny Fenton on 15/11/2019 23:47:46

Martin Fane16/11/2019 07:48:18
312 forum posts
319 photos

Hi Danny

Thanks for the tissueing guidance. I only have Yorkshire tea bag tissue - will that work ? wink

Martin

Danny Fenton16/11/2019 10:16:35
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9289 forum posts
4116 photos

Hi Martin, i am sure it will be more hard wearing

Cheers

Danny

Danny Fenton16/11/2019 11:36:23
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9289 forum posts
4116 photos

Yet more silk arrived this morning. The silk gauze looks promising, I will try it on the upper surface of the elevators

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If this things final colour is consistent I will be amazed, a real patchwork of materials!

Cheers

Danny

Martian16/11/2019 12:02:38
2255 forum posts
1091 photos

It's small wonder solarfilm was invented , I'm sure it will look wonderful yes

McG 696916/11/2019 12:17:47
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2714 forum posts
1017 photos

... and a real patchwork of 'experimentations' as well, Danny.

It's always such a pleasure to read your 'thread'... (pun intended) wink

Cheers

Chris

Danny Fenton16/11/2019 15:13:06
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9289 forum posts
4116 photos

Thanks chaps, feedback is very much appreciated. I am now wondering if tissue over silk is a thing.......I know Doculam, mylar and polyester is being used under tissue, possibly an option. But I really do try to avoid iron on coverings.

Added a piece of "Tetley" tissue to the underside of the fus. Di I double tissue as I have the sides and top, or try the silk gauze.....

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Cheers

Danny

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