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BMFA subs increase.

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Andy Symons - BMFA14/09/2018 09:55:07
468 forum posts
1 photos
I wouldnt be too sure that going electronic only for the BMFA News would save much, if anything at all. Also you need to consider what we lose. If we work on saving the whole ?160k (which you wouldnt anyway as ther will always be some costs even on an electronic version only) it works out at about 75p per issue per member including postage costs. However the BMFA are obliged to send various items to all members (AGM notices etc), every year and this is done via the BMFA news. Otherwise it would be posted documents when you consider you cant send an A4 sheet of paper for much less than ?1 the BMFA news is a bargain.
Also and probably more importantly the CAA consider the fact all members get a direct hard copy mailing 6 times a year as a very very good thing and 75p an issue is worth every penny for that alone.

As to most going in the bin unread, if you read online posts you could easily get that impression. However in many ways online fora and social media are naturally biased against printed media and certainly in my experience in face to face discussions doing club talks and other interactions In my opinion most are at least skim read if not read cover to cover.

There is still a significant number of members we dont have an email address for, also a significant number we do who still prefer printed anyway so personally I dont (as yet) see any savings but perhaps more costs by going part printed and part online via opt out.

Having said all that for 75p every 2 months its an absolute bargain even if for nothing else that the CAA/DFT consider it a very very very good thing.
Steve Dunne14/09/2018 09:57:07
93 forum posts
47 photos

" Impact probabilities are an exponential function of proximity - the nearer a thing is the more likely you are to hit it."

At my club's site, the pits line is 30 yards from the flightline, and cars are lined up against the fence some yards behind that. (The pits line -> flightline is a very useful distance for range checking!).

The only three fairly recent instances I can recall where an aircraft crashed behind the flightline were all well behind the cars - and beyond the road.
There is usually height involved when control is lost, and therefore some ground distance covered before touchdown...


John Tee14/09/2018 10:15:32
720 forum posts
65 photos

Carperfect, Lokking at your site rules I assume it is electric or 4 stroke i/c only plus gliders? do you have another site for helis and m/rotors. Only one site mentioned


Erfolg14/09/2018 11:04:27
11211 forum posts
1106 photos

I am not convinced that there is any pressing need to save money, beyond normal good practice.

The increase as indicated, is not excessive, in itself, with the proviso, we all have our provisos.

In my case, there is resistance to any increases related to international competition, £60k is quite generous, for a select group. The idea of extending the coverage as recently suggested is not one that fills me with enthusiasm. The support of free meals to some at association (bow tie ) events. Again recently proposed. That the NFC stands alone, independent of the main finances.

As for the Insurance claims, it seems that the issue, can, and should be managed to a level which is de minimis, with respect to cars.

The magazine whilst not perfect to me, is OK. Remembering that all contributions are voluntary with no financial reward. I also like the tactile feel of a book or a mag. My dislikes are reports of competitions, with detailed results. If they must have them, they need to speak to Alex Whitaker, to avoid the tedium of how round one went and oh, how bored and sleepy I am now feeling.

Nigel R14/09/2018 11:30:19
2483 forum posts
406 photos

Thanks for continuing to comment on the thread Andy.

If good reasons beyond simply "having a circular" are present to maintain the paper copies, and more pertinent to this discussion, savings would be minimal as you would need some stuff to be distributed by post whether a mag went with it or not, it seems more a no brainer to keep it going as is.

There will always be stuff in there of little or no interest to you, such is the way when it has a diverse bunch of subjects to round up. I doubt many of the free flight guys are particularly interested in the IMAC column, for instance. On the whole I would say the content of the mag is about right. There is a broad church of contest interests to report on, general club activities, several regular columns contributed by on-the-ground punters off their own bat, announcements and so forth.

Lima Hotel Foxtrot14/09/2018 12:39:06
308 forum posts

My word, this thread has gone off piste. I suggest that this thread is closed and that a specific new thread started to address the discussion of BMFA and other organisations insurance.

Don Fry14/09/2018 12:41:12
3307 forum posts
40 photos

I think the concept of worrying about a plane hitting a car parked behind the pits is strange. In my twisted logic if I am standing behind the pits, even by one centimetre, I don't have to worry about injury. That is someone else's task to keep me safe. Planes don't reach the pits.

If you can't fly to this standard, don't fly, unsupervised. If you plane does the mythical lost signal, sort out a failsafe to bring it down quicker.

If your insurance costs are up because cars and models are being hit in safe areas, you are on the waiting list to kill someone.

Isn't the "A" achievement scheme about demonstrating a robust theoretical and practical knowledge of safety on a standard club field..

The Wright Stuff14/09/2018 12:49:17
1383 forum posts
226 photos

I ask once again (though I'm beginning to suspect my posts are invisible):

do we actually have any statistics that say the number of cars being hit is increasing in a statistically significant way?

If not, why are we squabbling about it?

Small number statistics can be influenced by a great many factors. For all we know, it could just have been one really expensive car that got hit. The difference between mean and median is instrumental when drawing conclusions. Or it could be that car insurance companies are becoming more insistent on following up liability, rather than just paying out.

Edited By The Wright Stuff on 14/09/2018 12:51:15

Peter Beeney14/09/2018 14:41:40
1551 forum posts
59 photos

T. W. S. I don’t think we have any figures or statistics as yet anyway, but what we do have is a general statement from the BMFA saying that there has been a significant increase in claims for members car crashing into other members vehicles or expensive aircraft in the pits area. Which I have taken to mean there has been a significant increase in insurance claims. (Plural).

And then because we may not get the refund these claims have in fact been met.

I’ve done r/c aeromodellling on a regular basis now for a number of years, I started to attempt radio flying in the sixties with McGregor and the homemade TerryTone receivers. Fortunately I just missed the valve operated gear and the 45 volt HT batteries! Overhaul I guess I’ve seen and heard about most situations but crashing into a car or an expensive model in the pits is one that’s so far escaped me. So my first thought was ‘ What are the Safety implications in this? Or subconsciously inverting that perhaps - What are the Danger implications in this?

Then trying to get a better handle on it I thought that because the BMFA membership figures have remained stable for a number of years the routine procedures will have probably also remained relatively stable. Including the number of insurance claims. But I really can’t think that the standard of flying has deteriorated that significantly, particularly in view of all the training aids there are available today, so I agree entirely with BEB when he says “I don't understand where all these incidents are coming from?”

Perhaps not prudent to comment further, but as I said before, I think my friend thought the car damage figures might have been slightly artificially high years ago.

Not particularly squabblin’ hopefully, just sayin’


David Mellor14/09/2018 14:41:56
1288 forum posts
620 photos

I'm not sure anyone has said that the number or frequency of cars being hit is rising.

I think we are under the general impression that the sum-cost of claims is not acceptable given that the sum-cost of claims seem to be dominated by a significant number of member-on-member incidents.

The point is a simple one - as pilots we each carry 3rd party liability insurance. In insurance a 3rd party is normally (not always) a member of the general public that you haven't previously bumped into (forgive the pun). But in our case we seem to be prone to crashing into each other's vehicles (the general public usually being too far away to get hit).

If there were no member-on-member claims, our premium would fall.

Cuban814/09/2018 17:54:26
2357 forum posts
8 photos

For me, the peace of mind that the insurance provides, whether it's the general public's or another club member's property, or worse, that might be damaged, is I believe, worth far more than what we pay at the moment. I don't welcome a rise in BMFA subs, but let's be realistic about how the cost of our third party cover or the indeed the full BMFA sub sits with other modelling expenditure - it's a very small, almost insignificant proportion IMHO.

As for the BMFA mag and its cost- well, it's easy to carp at it and I for one find probably half of its contents of no real interest to me, despite the articles being well written by enthusiastic correspondents. The comments about not going paperless with the mag are fair enough, but of course simply posting the mag out doesn't necessarily mean people will bother reading it. If it simply ticks a CAA box and puts us in their good books, that's fair enough, but fewer and fewer people (not just the young I might add) rely on traditional communication and have embraced the on-line alternative. Both of my clubs (over 200 people) rely on email and website communications and have posted very little out in connection with club business for several years.

kc14/09/2018 18:53:28
5820 forum posts
167 photos

Previously Andy Symons responded to my comments with " There hasnt been any non aeromodelling events at the NC that has meant it has been closed to members"

The BMFA website showed (when I checked in August ) that Buckminster was closed for a private event on 18th August. So what event was on the 18th August? Was it a private aeromodelling event which ordinary BMFA members could not attend?

CARPERFECT14/09/2018 18:55:56
436 forum posts
6 photos

John Tee, We have a very small site so do not have Helis or m/rotas, We have 54 members and this works fine for us, We have roads to two sides and a house just down the lane 150 mts away

John Tee14/09/2018 19:28:07
720 forum posts
65 photos

No problem just wondered


kc14/09/2018 19:28:40
5820 forum posts
167 photos

If it only costs 75 pence for the BMFA magazine then why do other aeromodelling magazines cost about 5 pounds 50? Is it economy of scale? Cutting out the newsagent? Paying the authors less? It's smaller than most magazines but still contains a lot of info.

There seems to be something wrong with Britain's economics - BMFA mag cost 75 pence for the magazine and postage, while if we buy something from a British shop the postage alone is rarely as low as 75 pence usually much more. But if we buy aeromodelling items from China the cost of postage is much less - a propellor or something similar can cost less than a pound for prop and postage. Yet all these items come through my door from the same postman!

Some costings seem wrong!


Edited By kc on 14/09/2018 19:31:03

Erfolg14/09/2018 19:47:16
11211 forum posts
1106 photos

Although of topic, KC, you seem to be correct, I have to pay more to send very little .

Tom Sharp 214/09/2018 20:01:32
3313 forum posts
17 photos

I like the magazine, cool

Don Fry14/09/2018 20:40:04
3307 forum posts
40 photos

A prop, and postage, less than a pound. Try making that prop, and eating. Not here please.

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator14/09/2018 21:43:32
15748 forum posts
1460 photos

Now this bit about costs of postage and bits and bits in UK versus China really is off topic! Let's drop it please. If you feel compelled to raise and discuss the issue then open another appropriate thread.


Bob Cotsford14/09/2018 21:49:29
7732 forum posts
431 photos

I thought that the mag was largely paid for by advertising, is that not so? As for the insurance, I still wonder whether our litigious society has had an influence where in years gone by club incidents were settled by the guilty party coughing up.

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