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Gutted!

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Cliff Bastow23/09/2018 10:50:58
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830 forum posts
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Little more to say!

Sorry i don't know why the pics have come out upside down.

Broken Prop23/09/2018 11:00:32
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607 forum posts
1 photos

What can I say but commiserations Cliff. It was a lovely model.

Is it salvagable?

Cliff Bastow23/09/2018 11:06:58
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830 forum posts
427 photos

I have not been able to bring myself to have a close look yet! Just left in the workshop for now. I will inspect it more closely in a few weeks.

What makes it worse was it was totally my fault!

Martin Harris23/09/2018 11:08:33
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8969 forum posts
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So sad. Whatever you do though, leave it a week or two before making any decision that you can't change. I've found that even apparently hopeless cases seem more practical to repair after the initial shock and disappointment has worn off.

In a lighter vein, it's obvious why the photos are upside down - it's modelled as a plane from the antipodes!

P.S. My reply overlapped a little and I expect we're all pleased that you're not going to make any rash decisions. Best wishes if (when!) you decide to repair her.

Edited By Martin Harris on 23/09/2018 11:14:55

Engine Doctor23/09/2018 11:45:32
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2344 forum posts
28 photos

Funny how our approach to these mishaps differ. I find that if I leave it it never gets repaired and just gathers dust before stripping and getting shot of it. I now put it straight on the bench ,strip an access the viability of repair an nearly always sort it. Good luck whatever approach you take.

Paul Marsh23/09/2018 11:59:10
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3744 forum posts
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What happened? "Was Connie too much for you" or did something fail?

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator23/09/2018 12:04:54
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Oh dear. Our hobby offers great rewards, but it can be a hard mistress sometimes.

BEB

Cliff Bastow23/09/2018 12:57:30
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830 forum posts
427 photos

Well it went like this, After finally getting her finished and having a day off work I took her to the field and fly her.

First flight, went really well. she flew nicely and looked great in the air/ Some of my club-mates were very complimentary with comments like, great presence and very stately.

Second flight went well also.

On the third flight she was flying well but one u/c did not retract, I lowered the u/c again and all of a sudden she became almost uncontrollable in the roll axis. The slightest touch on the ailerons had her on a wingtip. I fought her round towards the field all the time having to correct her from wingtip to wingtip but lost her just before the field at a lowish height and could not catch her in time. She impacted into a pile of old onions the farmer had dumped near our field which possibly saved her from worse damage.

I was at a loss at the time to explain what had happened.

Looking at my transmitter a bit later I realized what had happened. You may remember that when i test flew her over a year ago in the bare wood state She did not respond well to ailerons but was quite sensitive on rudder?

Well I had done a mix of rudder to aileron and put it on a switch. In the time she was being finished I added more aileron range and some aileron differential. I discovered this worked well and she turned well on ailerons. In the meantime I had forgotten about the rudder mix.

On looking at my transmitter that the switch for the mix was on, I think that while feeling for the u/c switch I inadvertently switch the mix on making her very roll sensitive!

Denis Watkins23/09/2018 12:57:33
3938 forum posts
64 photos

You are already a brave man showing us this Cliff, we have all done it.

That heap will repair, as the lads say, come back to it

cymaz23/09/2018 13:08:32
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8817 forum posts
1195 photos

Sad for you .....my sympathies angry

Cliff Bastow23/09/2018 14:12:53
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830 forum posts
427 photos

Brave? HMMM dont feel brave at the moment lol. Stupid maybe.

ken anderson.23/09/2018 14:55:51
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8481 forum posts
773 photos

shame there cliff,but you know the cause and also you know it flys like a goodin...so when you've collected your thoughts get it sorted …..next time around it'll fly better...

ken anderson...ne..1...2nd time around dept.

Peter Miller23/09/2018 19:56:15
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Possibly not the best time for this but I was just reading through a book, September Champions which is a history of air facing.

There is a picture of a FordTrimotor cockpit in which Harold Johnsson used to loop from 15 feet.

Harold also flew a full arrobatic schedule in a Lockheed Constelattion and it was even billed in the race program once but was mysteriously withdrawn at the last minute. Possibly the airlines didn't want their pilots getting ideas

Cliff Bastow29/09/2018 01:41:54
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830 forum posts
427 photos

Had a look at her today, just might be repairable. Once other projects are finished I might revisit her.

Cliff Bastow29/09/2018 01:43:56
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830 forum posts
427 photos

worst thing appears to be that the main di-hedral brace on the main spar is snapped, so would habe to dig into the wing to replace it.

Martin Harris29/09/2018 01:57:45
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8969 forum posts
221 photos

Having done this on a couple of occasions, it's a tricky job but by no means impossible. If you used epoxy, there should be a detectable boundary layer that you can work to...

A Permagrit file is extremely useful after drilling carefully into the broken braces.

Best wishes!

Chris Walby29/09/2018 06:54:57
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1030 forum posts
239 photos

I am sure you mentioned it flew well and its a very impressive looking model so on that basis is it not worth reinvesting more time to get her back to flying condition?

Its even inspired me to dig out of the naughty corner a carrier bag of unimpressive flying model laugh

Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator29/09/2018 09:02:28
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Martin is right, getting a broken brace out is not impossible. Howvever in my experience (having done it precissely once and never again) it is the next best thing! As you go in getting a clean face for the new brace to adhere to becomes progressively more and more difficult - as does removing the broken brace without damaging the surrounding good structure.

So, can I suggest a possible, if somewaht radical, alternative? Why not glue the existing brace back together again.

(I can already sense the collective raising of eyebrows and the muttering of "that's it, he's finally flipped, I've seen it coming"

But stop and think about it for a minute.

Adhesives such as aliphatics,so called "yellow glue" and PVA's actually penetrate the wood and there is evidence to suggest that, applied and left to set under pressure, they form a joint that is actually stronger than the underlying wood in many cases. So if the joint will go back together with a good tight ftt (the more jagged edges the better, as long as they interlock, because that means a lager wetted area and a stronger joint) and you can strip back a bit of covering so you can securely clamp the joint for 24 hours why not give this a go?

Another factor here is that I assuming you built this model to fly it in a scale-like manner, stately and with presence as you say above, wide gentle turns and low passes being the order of the day. All this implies that the G loading will be very small - again supporting the idea that glue joint, even if you do have doubts about its ultimate strength, may well be be fine.

I can't say I've personally tried this, but I have certainly resolved that, faced with a broken wing brace again, I would try it! So it's just an invitation to think bout it before you get the drill and the knife out.

BEB

Peter Miller29/09/2018 09:09:02
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10331 forum posts
1231 photos
10 articles

The other possible option would be to cut through the wing skins either side of the main spar and glue extra dihedral braces each side of the spar. With the wing glue together they only need to be quite thin extra braces.

Edited By Peter Miller on 29/09/2018 09:09:20

Ronaldo29/09/2018 12:44:34
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237 forum posts
17 photos

Oh no ........ sorry to hear that.

Just like to mention a broken ply wing brace can be repaired without have to open up the wing providing the ply brace is thick enough, by drilling 2 holes into each break at the wing roots with a 'long' wood drill bit. Then joining together with 2 solid carbon rods. Fortunately I didn't have much dihedral to worry about, but also if the holes are slightly bigger than the diameter of the carbon rods, you will have some play allowing to align up both wings, also possibly allowing to add any needed dihedral. Use 30 mins epoxy with some microfibers added, just enough to stop the epoxy from being too runny, feed into the drilled out holes (paper kitchen towels useful here to mop up any epoxy squeezing out of the wing root holes as you push the carbon rods in), this fills up any gaps or play around the carbon rods once the wings have been jigged up and aligned.

Just a thought, hope this helps.

Edited By Ronaldo on 29/09/2018 12:48:39

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