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Miss Demeanor Sr

A very semi scale Cassutt for electric power

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Peter Miller17/01/2019 14:46:52
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Well I have got it finished.

As it is only very semi scale I did not do a scale colour scheme.

As it is based on Miss Demeanor I have changed the name to Miss Deeds.

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450 sq inches of wing area. weight is 4 lbs or 64 ounces.

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Regretably it needed four ounces of lead in the nose.Build the rear end light!!!

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I deliberately kept the side area as per the enlargement to help it with knife edge flight but slimmed the plan view down.

Now I just want a relatively mild and calm day for test flying

Nigel R17/01/2019 14:49:57
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I like that (even the pun!) yes

Edited By Nigel R on 17/01/2019 14:50:14

Peter Miller17/01/2019 14:52:15
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THanks!!

I like playing with words

Peter Miller20/01/2019 19:22:09
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Wellit flies really well.Very aerobatic without being too fast and furious. Some may want more power butr in calm conditions she lifts off in about 10 yaerds up hill.

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With a .25 or .32 glow you would have a tiger by the tail

Erfolg20/01/2019 20:39:01
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All good info to have. Do you know how many watts you are pulling?

Peter Miller20/01/2019 20:55:38
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Sorry I don't have a watt meter.

Basically I can say that usig quite a bit of reduced power i got 10 minutes out of a 3000 Mah battery.

Piers Bowlan21/01/2019 06:39:43
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Peter, using a four cell battery instead of three will give you significantly more power but that will draw more amps so no doubt a smaller prop would be required, the danger being that the amp rating of the motor could be exceeded (the ESC too possibly). Without a Watt meter you are very much in the dark.

If you want more power you could speak to George Worley at 4-Max again and he can no doubt supply a drop-in replacement motor of identical dimensions to the one you are using now but with a lower Kv which would be optimised for a 4s LiPo. The Amp draw and prop size would be very similar to what you have now but as you would be using a higher voltage you will enjoy significantly more power (30%+ maybe). The only downside is that you would need to buy a new motor and 4s batteries if you don't have any at the moment. A 3000mAh 4s battery will weigh a bit more too. What motor are you using in Miss Deeds by the way?

Alternatively you could fit a .32 but that would be a lot more work! I think you may find that a 4s setup may transform the model and your flying experience.

Just my 2p worth.

PS. 4-Max sell the GT Watt meters too but a little more pricy (Hobbyking also, under their Turnigy brand name)

Edited By Piers Bowlan on 21/01/2019 07:03:05

Peter Miller21/01/2019 08:13:07
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Hi Piers.

Actually I always get Georges advice and use his suggestions. George knows that I don't like over powered models.

In fact the model suits me these days. It does all the aerobatics I want including my favourite square loops at a pace that I am comfortaable with.

The suggestion for a little more power came from the best pilot in the club who likes his aerobatic models to have a bit more hair! So I mentioned it for those who who need more adrenaline.

Piers Bowlan21/01/2019 08:15:31
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Fair enough yes. I was just thinking that you might carry a 4s battery instead of 4oz of lead in the nose.

Edited By Piers Bowlan on 21/01/2019 08:22:47

Erfolg21/01/2019 15:55:40
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I will be building the PM model and will be using a 4s,

The model is in the ball park where that extra power is particular useful when going of from grass. I will be using a Turnigy D3536/8 1,000kv motor, this will give me about 400w, running circa 11,000 - 12000 revs on a 6" pitch which gives a OK speed. This is on the Giles

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I have used a Turnigy 35-28 on 4s @1250kv again circa 400w, on a Balasa craft fw 190D..

I have a few similar motors, performing pretty similarly. All of which indicates to me, there are an awful lot of motors that will provide the power @ 6" pitch. Although I have run at 7" pitch occasionally.>>

About the Giles is much the same size at 44" span @ 4ib 4 oz, giving a wing loading in the 26 oz region. For speed the model is pretty fast, not a pylon racer though.>>

Peters model is appox. 12" chord , which is approx 3.6 ft^2, which brings the loading down to approx 18oz region a very useful reduction, which once again provide a build numpty like myself with a nice handling model, just like the smaller version.>>

Piers Bowlan21/01/2019 17:56:18
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I think a Turnigy SK-3 3548/840kv would be more to my liking personally, as it is rated at up to 50A which is about 50A and 750W (if you can believe the HK figures). At least that is what I am planning to use in my 'electrified' L M Honky Tonk (once I have cleared my bench) . Not a lot of difference in motor weight at any rate, although probably a larger battery required due to the higher current draw/shorter duration with the more powerful motor.

Peter Miller21/01/2019 18:12:35
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The Motor that is fitted is a 3541-1070 4Max turning an 11X5 prop. running on a 3000ah 3 cell battery.

The model will fly square loops and knife edge flight but could do with a faction more rudder power.

The model floats in on a whisper of throttle.

Erfolg21/01/2019 20:24:57
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The motor choice that Peter has made seems well suited to the model, in that it is intended as a sports model. That is for everyday flying.

I know circa 700w sounds great, and is great if your interests are flying very fast, or prop hanging. Although for both types of flying there are models designed specifically for the regime.

The down side of masses of power is that for a modest Lipo capacity, your "c" rating has to go up significantly. Even then heat can be an issue, puffing etc. All in all the cost is gong up. Of course you can up the Lipo capacity, although the weight has now gone up, the cost will have gone up, with some increase wing loading and possibly still an issue with duration.

Many people swear by 4-max, the motors are good, and the purchaser has access to sound advice.

I use HK and spend a lot of time pouring over small amount of data available. Gone are the days when plots were available for motor propeller, voltage combinations. For me the quality is adequate.

I find that peters designs have a number of positive aspects. The first is that they fly well, the second is that they are robust, a third is the build is simplified/optimisation, finally the forth is that there is scope to do some aspects your way, that is adapt the design to meet your wants.

I do believe that the Cassutt 1/4 size is yet another winner for club type modelers, with scope to bring nearer to scale.

Piers Bowlan22/01/2019 07:03:22
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yes Agree with all of that Erfolg. Of course if you fit a slightly larger motor one has the option to 'prop it' to get the performance you require and adjust to suit. You don't have to thrash it to within an inch of its life but it does give you a little more 'headroom'.

Peter Miller22/01/2019 08:31:33
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That is one advantage of electric it would seem, one can change a motor without any surgery.

Mind you, I looked at showing a simple power conversion on the plan but it was so simple I didn't bother. Simply put a 1/4 ply former about 3 1/2 inches back from the spinner ring and bolt a mount on it. Add a .25 or .32 for the power mad! Leave the hatch for access to the tank...Job done.

Might even save some of the nose weight that I needed.Mind you, that was partly because I used much too hard wood for gthe fuselage sides,

Nigel R22/01/2019 10:03:06
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It's not much different to IC Pete, lots of glow motors had common mounting dimensions within a certain class.

A 25 is (I go by rule of thumb - multiply by 70 then divide by 4) fairly close to a 400 or 450W electric. A 32 translates roughly to about 550W.

I would have thought somewhere in the middle, around 500W, would be ideal for this neat model. It needs a touch of speed, it is a racer, after all.

"a third is the build is simplified/optimisation,"

There's quite an art to making a thing simple, and Pete's designs do it well.

Peter Miller01/05/2019 12:37:26
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I have done some more testing. While the model was excellent I felt that first it needed a little more urge. an 11 X 6 prop has improved the power side of it but then I found that I did not really like the handling.

I then reduced the throws a little. AMAZING! It now handles just like my Ohmen. Another model that is only flown straight and level while inverted.

Funnyhow a little adjustment to the throws can make so much difference.

I will say that other pilots have flown it before the adjustment and found that it handled perfectly for them. A matter of tatse I suppose.

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