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Gatwick drone incident

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Percy Verance21/12/2018 06:44:13
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Fair pont Rich. The technology to bring down a missile travelling at several times the speed of sound already exists, yet this seems to have them stumped.

BAE systems developed anti drone technology a while ago, yet nothing appears to have come of it in this instance? One wonders if one of their fancy gizmos may appear in the next day or two? One based at each major airport perhaps?

Simon

This has the potential to become a nightmare in the making for us all. We're sure to catch a bit of the fallout.......

 

 

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 21/12/2018 06:47:33

Edited By Percy Verance on 21/12/2018 06:50:16

Michael Ramsay-Fraser21/12/2018 06:48:33
221 forum posts

Liz Kershaw on Sky News. 'Ban all drones from UK skys!'

And I was told to grow up when I suggested media over reaction??

Percy Verance21/12/2018 06:54:41
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Were those her exact words Michael? It seems literacy isn't a requirement for accurate journaslism.......

What on earth are skys?

Edited By Percy Verance on 21/12/2018 06:55:29

Michael Ramsay-Fraser21/12/2018 07:01:04
221 forum posts

blushblushblush

Anger got the better of me.

'Skies'

leccyflyer21/12/2018 08:01:24
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The Transport Minister in the news this morning pointed out that these are criminal acts and that laws already exist which these activities are breaching. However he then went on to say that the laws were recent and would be added to in order to further discourage this type of activity and to employ measures to make closing down an airport like this to be impossible. Expect further legislation in the not too distant future.

Nigel R21/12/2018 08:22:21
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Inevitably, there will be over reactions such as quoted above. Although, after some consideration, perhaps banning the sale and use of autonomous, beyond visual range kit, might help set us apart from the naughty boys who would do this sort of thing. I accept that argument has massive holes but I can't help thinking that drones are making their own bed and at this particular moment, I don't want to be in it.

re, transport sec statement, I don't know if that will translate into "extra" legislation. We already have new legislation being brought in, right? What airports don't yet have is a signed, sealed, and authorised method, for bringing down a rogue drone overflying its airspace.

It also occurs to me, if you stole a lightplane you could cause just as much chaos for exactly the same reasons and lightplanes have been around for a while now. You could, with autonomous guidance tech, have a fixed wing model overfly the airport just as easily. Many ways and means for those with nefarious intent to carry out an op like this.

leccyflyer21/12/2018 08:34:26
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There is nothing in my post which is an over-reaction. I merely reported what the Transport Secretary said - his comment that legislation does not stop criminal acts was a sensible comment, but he did say that further legislation would be brought in.

MattyB21/12/2018 08:42:36
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Posted by leccyflyer on 21/12/2018 08:34:26:

There is nothing in my post which is an over-reaction. I merely reported what the Transport Secretary said - his comment that legislation does not stop criminal acts was a sensible comment, but he did say that further legislation would be brought in.

I am pretty sure he was referring to the quote from Liz Kershaw on Sky News that was a few posts above yours, not the comment from the Transport Sec.

Steve J21/12/2018 08:43:11
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Posted by leccyflyer on 21/12/2018 08:34:26:

he did say that further legislation would be brought in.

The results of the last consultation are due out in the New Year and presumably the long awaited Drone Bill will appear in Q2. If you recall, the consultation had lots of counter-UAV stuff in it.

Steve

Nigel R21/12/2018 08:43:32
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"There is nothing in my post which is an over-reaction."

Liz Kershow, Sky News, leccyflyer, not you.

Frank Skilbeck21/12/2018 08:44:22
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Maybe something like this would assist in tracking down any perpetrators or act as a deterrent.

Steve J21/12/2018 08:51:54
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Posted by Frank Skilbeck on 21/12/2018 08:44:22:

Maybe something like this would assist in tracking down any perpetrators or act as a deterrent.

Only if the drone was a DJI. Not a lot of use if the UAV is flying waypoints or is using 868MHz or even a 4G cellular connection for command and control.

What you need is a radar/passive EM/IR system designed to detect UAVs.

I wonder where one of the Army's new Israeli radars is this morning...

Steve

Edited By Steve J on 21/12/2018 08:52:25

MattyB21/12/2018 09:01:05
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Posted by Brian Cooper on 21/12/2018 01:47:00:

A lot of drones will be unwrapped on Christmas morning. None of these drones require any flying skills to operate them. Before Christmas dinner is on the table, there will be a whole new batch of morons created.

We need to stop lazily using the term “moron” here (I’d humbly suggest the mods change the thread title to something more descriptive like “Gatwick drone incident”, as the current one is neither descriptive nor aligned with the values of this forum as per the T&Cs). Those with no flight experience who unwrap a multirotor on Xmas morning are not morons by default - they are one of the very few opportunities to stem the reducing participation in our sport, and should be looked at as such. The device is not the issue here, it’s how it is used appropriately and safely that is key, and that can be achieved through a mix of education and effective enforcement (if the gov are prepared to pay for the latter).

I would also say that, whilst most of us will not agree with their motivations, the people who executed this carefully planned, skillfully orchestrated disruption to close a major airport for >24 hours are far from morons. What they have done is demonstrate that for a very small investment a huge amount of disruption can be caused to a major airport at minimal risk to themselves, and that the authorities can currently do very little to stop it. I hope that governments worldwide will realise that no amount of legislation could have stopped this attack, so practical anti-drone countermeasures will have to be deployed at major airports to prevent disruption and provide a deterrent. That will take time though, and I would be amazed if we do not see similar incidents in the short term now it’s been shown how effective a “Drone denial of service” attack can be.

Edited By MattyB on 21/12/2018 09:05:55

Denis Watkins21/12/2018 09:07:12
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yes

Pete B - Moderator21/12/2018 09:07:34
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That's fixed, MattyBthumbs up

Pete

OZ e flyer21/12/2018 09:18:37
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I think this issue (and I’m sure we all agree it is a global issue) may be best addressed with compulsory registration. I think it’s probably the easiest way but the problem, as has been previously stated is policing/enforcement as well as administration.

Possibly one way to assist with administration is point of sale registration. It appears that this could be done even with the internet sales given that taxes can be imposed on overseas sales. Currently almost any retailer can sell “drones” and most 10 year old kids buying or receiving these “toys” have no idea of their legal obligations and the retailers don’t care.

I know this won’t stop those intent on breaking the law, after all with a little bit of know how, a handful of spare parts and/or a 3D printer you could make your own. You will never stop those intent on breaking any law.

Of course there are always far smarter people than I who will have far smarter ideas. Maybe one is the registration of ALL transmitters? Someone with some tech smarts may also be able to come up with some way of putting an electronic “fingerprint” in all transmitters so that smart detection devices can track down “illegal” use?

As is always the case those operating responsibly and legally will have nothing to fear but we will be the ones to bear the brunt of enforcement and registration costs.

Here’s hoping we catch these clowns and somehow stop future such behaviour. I hope and pray we never have a catastrophic accident caused by these activities.

Stay safe and have a very merry Christmas.

TP

Steve J21/12/2018 09:19:14
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Posted by MattyB on 21/12/2018 09:01:05:

I hope that governments worldwide will realise that no amount of legislation could have stopped this attack, so practical anti-drone countermeasures will have to be deployed at major airports to prevent disruption and provide a deterrent. That will take time though, and I would be amazed if we do not see similar incidents in the short term now it’s been shown how effective a “Drone denial of service” attack can be.

Chris Woodroofe (Gatwick CEO on BBC’s Today Programme as reported by the Graun) -

“We need to do work with both technology providers and governments to address this risk,” he said

Gatwick had been working on issues around the threat from drones for more than a year but the reality is that today “there is still no commercial solution that is licensed to operate at airports that is proven,” he said.

“We have called in government agencies and the military to assist us in getting Gatwick open again to counteract this unprecedented event, this criminal act.”

Steve

Gary Murphy 121/12/2018 09:32:13
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I will probably get jumped on here but here goes.

First as the "drone/quad" been identified by size? what is it a £100 "mankind" job OR mega bucks camera platform.

Secondly I would imagine the guys here will have more insight than people who have no idea of the "rc world" . so given that who here if at Gatwick last night and had the choice would get on their flight with this "drone/quad" in the air?

I would for sure. Ihave more fear of getting run down in sainsburys OR the high street by a obese person in a unrestricted mobility "chair/chair" with no insurance.

Just my opinion.

Steve J21/12/2018 09:39:02
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Posted by Gary Murphy 1 on 21/12/2018 09:32:13:

First as the "drone/quad" been identified by size? what is it a £100 "mankind" job OR mega bucks camera platform.

The police described it as being "of an industrial specification".

As has been said above, this was done by people with an agenda who knew what they were doing and wanted to disrupt a major airport.

Steve

Peter Christy21/12/2018 09:44:46
1579 forum posts
Posted by Nigel R on 21/12/2018 08:22:21:It also occurs to me, if you stole a lightplane you could cause just as much chaos for exactly the same reasons and lightplanes have been around for a while now.

Ah, but a light aircraft requires some skill to operate. Most drones don't.

There is likely to be a knee-jerk reaction from politicians over this. We can only hope that the CAA, with suitable input from the BMFA, can moderate this. The people at the CAA aren't stupid, and are as aware as we are that the problem is not legislation, but enforcement. But as I've already pointed out, enforcement costs money - however it is achieved - and politicians would rather take the cheaper route of passing more unenforceable laws.

And again, we keep coming back to the problem of distinguishing between a "drone" - which requires little or no skill to operate - and our models, which require LOS and considerable skill to operate.

If the powers-that-be had managed to come up with a suitable distinction in the first place, it would be an awful lot easier to distance ourselves from the rogue operators.

--

Pete

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