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German WW2 Insignia

Should we or shouldn't we?

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Martin Harris24/01/2019 11:19:06
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8559 forum posts
214 photos

I don't feel that scale modelling in any way celebrates or legitimises the evil regime that abused a Hindu peace symbol. If I choose to model a German aircraft of the period, it's because I find it technically interesting or an attractive aircraft. Applying a swastika is no different to ensuring that other details are represented as accurately as possible.

Bob Cotsford24/01/2019 11:46:59
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7836 forum posts
433 photos

Same as Martin, if the original had a swastika then the model should also have one, otherwise are you also going to omit guns and bomb mounts too? Better stick to civil prototypes then!

Cuban824/01/2019 11:47:27
2504 forum posts
10 photos

You are building a scale model, so therefore if the original had a swastika then a swastika it should have. Why there should be any other motive under suspicion, I find baffling.

Just as an aside, my father and two uncles were illtreated as POW workers on 'The Railway' by the Japanese in Thailand, one of my uncles never returned home. Japanese WW2 attrocities, which I won't go into here, are well known and documented, yet the Rising Sun insignia is never given a second thought, except by those who suffered under its symbology.

I never build axis aircraft myself, although an FW190 (the captured one, in allied colours) might be an exception, or possibly the little HK Me163 Komet but repainted to represent the Me 163B captured and repainted in 1945 for testing by the RAF. Eric Brown?

simon barr24/01/2019 11:53:38
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1029 forum posts
16 photos

It's ok to show a swastika in the UK, and even here in the Channel Islands, which were occupied during the war. However, in a lot of European countries, it is illegal, which is why you see models with a "squared off" swastika on the fin.

brokenenglish24/01/2019 12:47:31
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427 forum posts
28 photos

Depends on whether you give priority to authenticity or to politics...

Plummet24/01/2019 12:53:07
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1387 forum posts
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I recall at one of the LMA shows at Cosford there was a German display team and that they were not permitted to display swastikas.

Also there was a German teacher visiting and he was buying books from the Museum Bookshop that he would not be allowed to buy at home because of illustrations containing them.

I write this from near Ilkley Moor where there is a prehistoric carved stone called the swastika stone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika_Stone

Plummet

Edited By Plummet on 24/01/2019 12:54:00

Edited By Plummet on 24/01/2019 12:54:41

Stearman6524/01/2019 13:05:12
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769 forum posts
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Back in the day I built the Pica / Dave Platt Focke Wolfe 190. In those days there didn't seem to be any qualms about a swastika on a scale model. IMO things have got more sensitive about it. Maybe the Holocaust denial movement has prompted it. I don't think it will bother me when I decide on a scheme, there's something about an authentic version. Incidentally, I found a version in all white with red Red Cross symbols, however, it still had the swastika on the fin. Just remembered I won the ODMAC Model of the year comp with the FW190, there's a picture somewhere if I can find it.

dsc_0015.jpg

Percy Verance24/01/2019 13:58:19
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8103 forum posts
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I thought it was permitted in Germany to display a swastika in a correct historical context, with permission from the authorites? As far as I'm aware, they refuse far more than they allow.......

However, I understand if you're seen painting one on a wall, your feet won't touch the ground. Quite right too. It is a banned symbol now under German law.

Edited By Percy Verance on 24/01/2019 14:03:52

Former Member24/01/2019 14:07:32
724 forum posts

[This posting has been removed]

Don Fry24/01/2019 14:59:06
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3633 forum posts
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Percy, you are correct, permitted in the right historical context, with permissions granted. But, on a toy aircraft, you are left to answer the question why you wish to create and exhibit the symbol, when an alternative colour scheme, say Romanian, the same airframe has not got this symbol.

And I don't think it is correct to criticise German attitudes to the trauma that resulted from their adoption of a National Socialist government.

Engine Doctor24/01/2019 15:22:26
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2223 forum posts
21 photos

You can't re-write history . It happened , fact, the Swastika was there symbol ,fact , so producing a correct model of that period should be correct. Political correctness has gone too far IMO and our society is too soft . Its not as if you are celebrating the Nazi . I'm not sure if it's true but I have been told that German schools don't teach about the horrors of there forefathers . It's a stupid approach as if you don't know where you came from then you won't know where your going and the same mistakes could happen again given the same or similar circumstances. Denying what happened is far more sinister IMO.

Percy Verance24/01/2019 16:26:56
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8103 forum posts
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If we're being truly factual ED, the swastika wasn't a German symbol, it was adopted by the National Socialists, a political party..........

And as pointed out at the start of the thread, it is actually a religeous symbol. And I rather suspect this thread may get out of hand at some point..........so this is my parting shot with this one.

Edited By Percy Verance on 24/01/2019 16:28:25

Stearman6524/01/2019 16:33:59
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769 forum posts
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Posted by Don Fry on 24/01/2019 14:59:06:

But, on a toy aircraft, you are left to answer the question why you wish to create and exhibit the symbol, when an alternative colour scheme, say Romanian, the same airframe has not got this symbol.

I think what we are talking about couldn't be classed a toy aircraft.

For those looking for alternative schemes fro the Storch in particular, this link takes you to a site with potentially numerous schemes, I say potentially as when I tried to register, it looks like the domain is defunct & for sale. However there are some thumb nail images that could be investigated.

Since posting I investigated the link, if you scroll down to the bottom of the page there is a back link, click that & it opens another section with a lot more thumb nail images, unfortunately, they a too small to enlarge.

**LINK**

Edited By Stearman65 on 24/01/2019 16:34:44

Edited By Stearman65 on 24/01/2019 16:44:00

Engine Doctor24/01/2019 16:39:49
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2223 forum posts
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Posted by Percy Verance on 24/01/2019 16:26:56:

If we're being truly factual ED, the swastika wasn't a German symbol, it was adopted by the National Socialists, a political party..........

And as pointed out at the start of the thread, it is actually a religeous symbol. And I rather suspect this thread may get out of hand at some point..........so this is my parting shot with this one.

Edited By Percy Verance on 24/01/2019 16:28:25

Hi Percy . It shouldn't get out of hand , just a discussion surely. 

Yes the swastika was a religious symbol but didn't the tails face the opposite direction? 

Whatever it was it shouldn't, be wiped from history just because it offends a few .

Edited By Engine Doctor on 24/01/2019 16:48:06

Former Member24/01/2019 17:05:48
1322 forum posts

[This posting has been removed]

Pete B - Moderator24/01/2019 17:27:57
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Posted by Percy Verance on 24/01/2019 16:26:56:

And as pointed out at the start of the thread, it is actually a religeous symbol. And I rather suspect this thread may get out of hand at some point..........so this is my parting shot with this one.

I can only think that might happen if someone indicated their approval of its display in connection with its political overtones, rather than as an historically-accurate scale detail, Percy.

The thread has been conducted exactly I would have expected here so far and I do not anticipate it going in any adverse directionthumbs up

Pete

SIMON CRAGG24/01/2019 17:34:44
360 forum posts
5 photos

The latest Dynam FW190 shows a Swastika on the box, but comes with a cross on the decal sheet. I hummed and haahed a bit, but stuck to decal on the sheet they provided.

john stones 124/01/2019 18:10:07
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10384 forum posts
1475 photos

How Germany deals with it is for them to decide, we have films and documentary showing the symbol, it's far from erased from history. Being used on a model wouldn't offend me, certain others that use it would.

Stearman6524/01/2019 18:11:33
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769 forum posts
893 photos
Posted by SIMON CRAGG on 24/01/2019 17:34:44:

The latest Dynam FW190 shows a Swastika on the box, but comes with a cross on the decal sheet. I hummed and haahed a bit, but stuck to decal on the sheet they provided.

One site I looked at had 3 different schemes, 2 with swastikas & one without.

**LINK**

The Wright Stuff24/01/2019 18:20:19
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1383 forum posts
226 photos

Is it illegal to show a mirror image in Germany? Just curious...

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