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Seagull Hurricane Laser

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Jon - Laser Engines21/07/2019 20:19:32
5065 forum posts
217 photos

The frustrating thing is that takeoff and normal flight is uneventful. If you keep it flying like a warbird and dont try too many loops its a walk in the park. I cant work out why landing should be such a challenge.

I wish it had not been so windy today as its likely that was misleading us somewhat, but even without the wind i suspect it would still have required careful handling.

Chris Walby21/07/2019 21:37:58
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1067 forum posts
253 photos

Well all I have to say is a massive thank you to Jon as I would have been using a bin liner by now!

It looks good and sounds great, seems to taxi and take off with no trouble. I had a very short stick wiggle and it flies very nice.

The problem is it seems to take no prisoners when landing.

No flaps and its quite quick and coupled with the mushing/delayed elevator ends in a resonating dolphin

Half flap, it seemed slower (no much) and on high rates on the elevator seemed ok, but still mushes and delay elevator response! No wonder Jon had his work cut out!

Full flap and it will fly slow, but the loss of elevator authority + a nasty pitch down if you try and add any power - almost impossible to do a go-around! and a fierce tip stall...

I am still using the OEM U/C and its very poor which might not be helping, plus I might reduce the full flap position (1/2 way between 1/2 and full).

https://youtu.be/taxtJw9INSk

We will just wait for a calmer day and test some more....

Edited By Chris Walby on 21/07/2019 22:08:01

Federico Scapparone28/01/2020 20:50:06
2 forum posts

Hello everybody, any update on the landing issue resolution?

I've bought the mine time ago but I'm not assembling it given the issue you've met.

Jon - Laser Engines28/01/2020 23:37:03
5065 forum posts
217 photos

not yet. Winter came and i have been hiding inside

Tim Flyer29/01/2020 08:31:49
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1166 forum posts
222 photos

Mine is still hanging in the garage ready to test after major repair. Unfortunately with my grass runway it might be a a month or two before the ground is firm enough after a record wet January. The Hertfordshire water table is almost at surface level on the fields and clay soil makes drainage very very slow.

Jon - Laser Engines29/01/2020 09:13:39
5065 forum posts
217 photos

Last time i visited my field (november) it was like a marsh. My car nearly got stuck just sitting still for an hour

Chris Walby29/01/2020 12:50:09
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1067 forum posts
253 photos

The Laser is alive and being put to good use for the winter.

20191020_113130.jpg

The Hurricane is sitting in the garage ready for better weather and additional ballast option.

Tim Flyer29/01/2020 14:14:53
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1166 forum posts
222 photos

One thing I did do when I repaired mine was to use a longer elevator horn. That might allow use of additional elevator travel whilst still not making the elevator over sensitive. The old control horn had broken and was replaced with a longer Mick Reeves fibreglass/melamine one. I also replaced the heavy solid billet aluminium tail wheel  rod with an aluminium tube. I like that “winter plane” Chris ! What model is it? 

Edited By Tim Flyer on 29/01/2020 14:15:48

Edited By Tim Flyer on 29/01/2020 14:17:59

Jon - Laser Engines29/01/2020 14:43:17
5065 forum posts
217 photos

I think this elevator business is just a Hurricane trait. I was watching a video of a full size landing and as he came into the flare the elevator was up/down like a good'un with little to no response at all from the aircraft!

I think the setup of the sg Hurricane is really important but in my experience with Chris's model i think at least 50% is down to the pilot. Its just not going to float in like a butterfly and it needs to be flown every inch down to the ground. I am interested to see what happens when we add weight to the c/g just to make the thing heavier as this might help it stay a little more planted.

Denis Watkins29/01/2020 15:01:47
4048 forum posts
75 photos

Just check Jon, schoolboy stuff

The throttle up, nose down trait, can be loose motor or motor mount

And on the elevator, just check Chris has left no expo in there

Andrew Ray29/01/2020 15:05:02
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742 forum posts
19 photos

Both my E-flite Hurricane and YT Hurricane were the same as described here when landing and reducing elevator throw fixed it but I did not get the pitch down you have found going around in landing configuration. Afraid I couldn't tell you where the balance was on either (other than as advised in the instructions) as the E-flite bit the dust and I have sold the YT one.

Jon - Laser Engines29/01/2020 16:20:58
5065 forum posts
217 photos
Posted by Denis Watkins on 29/01/2020 15:01:47:

Just check Jon, schoolboy stuff

The throttle up, nose down trait, can be loose motor or motor mount

And on the elevator, just check Chris has left no expo in there

Both Tim's and Chris's Hurricane showed the same behaviour with the power on dive in landing config. My P39 does a similar thing and i think its to do with the thrust line being so high above the draggy undercarriage and the flaps moving the centre of lift further back. Not sure though and i cant remember if we did any thrust line tests in the air. Something else to look into!

As no expo we were clear of that as well.

Tim Flyer29/01/2020 17:12:30
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1166 forum posts
222 photos

I wonder if the very big radiator on the rear underside of the wing on the hurricane has something to do with the strange low speed handling

Ron Gray29/01/2020 17:43:57
1604 forum posts
394 photos

Both of my YT Hurries dropped their noses when u/c was lowered but both landed really well with no bouncing. I mixed in some (slight) up ele when legs were lowered and nose down problems went away.

Chris Walby29/01/2020 18:21:42
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1067 forum posts
253 photos

Tim, its a Hyperion YAK 54 and came with a spare cowl for a very good price. Someone said it could be 10 years old, but its been well looked after. Flies so nice on 2/3 throttle with nice big loops, rolls and stall turns.

As for the rad I can see your point as mine is completely blanked off so it must add a lot of drag. I don't know if that would effect low speed handling though, but if I can find some suitable mesh I'll make it more airtex.

Not knocking yours in any way, but as you strengthened things up it might be a bit heavier than mine and there could be some irony if I have to add more weight.

Federico,

If yours is not Laser powered I would work out the AUW, take Jon's advice about control throws and join the hurricane club.

Tim Flyer29/01/2020 18:40:20
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1166 forum posts
222 photos

Nice plane Chris, I don’t think any significant weight was added by my strengthening as it was quite minimal ( in the order of 30g . I also used standard wheels, ( on some of my other planes I use Dubro Airwheels which are very heavy and add a lot more weight than strengthening) , I use those wheels as they have sealed tubes and cope well with our rough runway. On the Hurricane I kept the kit light foam wheels on.

Federico Scapparone29/01/2020 20:40:48
2 forum posts

Thanks a lot everybody for the advices!

Even here in Italy our field is pretty sticky .

Hopefully we will be able to get back flying in march.

As regards the elevator what about increasing its surface?

Having it in my hand it seems pretty small compared to the wing chord, isn'it that - maybe - it gets some shadow effect during high angle of attack flight?

Thanks!

Jon - Laser Engines29/01/2020 21:22:53
5065 forum posts
217 photos
Posted by Federico Scapparone on 29/01/2020 20:40:48:

Thanks a lot everybody for the advices!

Even here in Italy our field is pretty sticky .

Hopefully we will be able to get back flying in march.

As regards the elevator what about increasing its surface?

Having it in my hand it seems pretty small compared to the wing chord, isn'it that - maybe - it gets some shadow effect during high angle of attack flight?

Thanks!

The tail is very sensitive with only about 3mm elevator movement needed in normal flight. The problem is that little movement is not enough for landing but adding more makes the transition between flying speed and landing speed difficult

ASH.29/01/2020 21:39:50
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323 forum posts
"The tail is very sensitive with only about 3mm elevator movement needed in normal flight. The problem is that little movement is not enough for landing but adding more makes the transition between flying speed and landing speed difficult"
Can you not have a throttle/elevator mix on a switch for landing?
Jon - Laser Engines29/01/2020 22:35:15
5065 forum posts
217 photos

not really. the problem is that you need to get the various mixes or whatever engaged before you have the problem so if you make these preventative changes too great the model is unflyable while you are trying to slow down to the speed where they work. As it is its a handful on the downwind as the elevator/undercarriage mix kicks in instantly you hit the gear switch even though the gear take several seconds to deploy. Even then, its too fast to be in trim so its climbing like crazy until you bleed off the speed. Get it slowed down, approach is nice enough but then you come to flare and your elevator has gone dead. To prevent that you kick to high rate on downwind while trying to drop the gear and wrestle with constantly changing trim.

Adding more mixes and complexity just makes it worse which is why i am leaning towards just manhandling it down.

All that said, last i flew Chris's model it was pretty blustery and that really didnt help us

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