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Seagull Hurricane Laser

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Chris Freeman 314/02/2020 09:21:10
362 forum posts
550 photos

Do you have any expo on the elevator? Years ago whilst teaching my son to fly a Spitfire I set up some expo to soften the elevator and that it made the Spitfire a pig to land as it would not settle on the approach and porpoise. We found that flaps and undercart down would lower the nose so you counter with some up and when you want to land the expo is now working against you as it is now a super sensitve elevator. Taking the EXPO out changed the situation and the Spitfire was back to the pleasent landing one that I was used to.

Jon - Laser Engines14/02/2020 09:38:27
5763 forum posts
275 photos
Posted by Piers Bowlan on 14/02/2020 08:47:09:

I appreciate that the model flies well in normal flight Jon, so from that perspective the c of g is in the 'right place' for that regime of flight. However if the model is uncontrollable at landing speeds then you have a problem which I feel no amount of elevator /flap mix tweaking will sort out.

Edited By Piers Bowlan on 14/02/2020 08:53:33

With gear and flaps down its almost impossible to hold the nose up without the ele/flap mix so adding more weight to the front wont help us and the rollercoaster nature of the approach seems to stem from the fact that the wing just provides so much lift that a small deviation in pitch, in either direction, has a significant impact. As the model is very slow when landing the tail looses effectiveness, which is not uncommon on a warbird, so higher rates are needed. This would all be fine if the wing was not so sensitive to pitch at low speed and that where we will focus our attention. 

Chris, no expo. Expo is a powerful tool but it is over used and very often used at the wrong times. I had a similar experience to you with a H9 Spitfire where a club mate could not get the thing on the ground as it was all over the place on approach. I looked at his tx settings and was horrified to find 60% rates and 65% expo. I dropped the rates to 25% and ditched all the expo. It was on rails after that.

The trap was he set the radio up according to the deflections called for in the manual. As it was too sensitive he added expo, as thats what popular misconception told him to do. This didnt help so he added more, and more... When i and another warbird proficient friend looked at it we immediately saw that the travel was too high and that was the root cause of the problem. Out of 12 models only one of mine has 10% expo in it and even then only on 1 channel. Its just not needed on the rest of them.

Always get rates set first, then add expo as the cherry on top. On warbirds starting with 30% is just insanity in my view as you are on the back foot before you even begin.

 

Edited By Jon - Laser Engines on 14/02/2020 09:39:58

ARC19/06/2020 14:10:40
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213 forum posts
79 photos

Picking one of these up tomorrow , either running on my saito FG30B or my FG40. My previous blackhorse hurri flew lovely but did angle the oleos forward by about 3-4mm which helped alot on the nose over issue.

Chris Walby19/06/2020 15:35:10
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1468 forum posts
399 photos

All the best ARC and please keep us informed as to how you get with the build and flying. Any questions please post as we all want to help if we can, wink

Tim Flyer06/09/2020 13:19:05
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1425 forum posts
258 photos

ddc6d6d5-ee16-4126-afab-90e0ed7c97a4.jpegd69d6a61-18c4-44a4-a08c-e26a18a0edf5.jpegJust thought I might update the thread with pictures after Jon flew my repaired Hurricane on Friday . It had become a “hangar queen” after I had repaired it after a belly crash onto the crop field last year . As it had had extensive repairs I wanted Jon to test it and set it up. It still seems a “mean machine” and is intolerant of errors, yet it looks very nice in the air . We also did a video of the very considerable stick input required to successfully land it.
Here are the pictures
b8c58679-cfa5-4e93-9695-80d94dfc10ee.jpeg

Jon - Laser Engines07/09/2020 09:15:31
5763 forum posts
275 photos

Looks nice in the photos!

Its been a real mixed bag with SG Hurricanes lately.

Last weekend Chris brought his model out to play with a view to finding out what on earth is going on. More weight was added on the c/g to try and combat the ballooning we were seeing on landing when trying to flare.

Takeoff was uneventful and the model was trimmed. It flew...ok, but was really pitch sensitive and generally a bit of a handful. I then lowered the gear, flaps, and was just turning into my base turn when the model just fell out of the sky. I had applied a little right aileron to just roll into the turn, the model responded as expected, and once the bank angle was as i wanted i moved the ailerons to about 10% left just to hold the attitude. Imagine my horror as it continued to roll right ending up in a vertical dive.

Initially i thought the radio had gone as i had no control at all. The telemetry system seems to rule that out however as no signal loss was recorded.

checking the remains revealed that one aileron servo horn was missing its retaining screw (found later inside the wing) so its possible the horn came off in flight or slipped a spline which would have made things interesting.

Did i stall/spin it? I dont know. If i did it is the first model i have ever stall/spun on approach to land. I cant see how it spun either as i had no up elevator pressure (in fact a little down), some power, and the nose was below the horizon. Did i get myself disorientated and roll the wrong way? maybe? Many years ago i did that with a galaxy mustang but the situation was very different as i took my eyes off it and i was crossing the low sun. This time i didnt have either of those issues, and everything was going exactly as i expected up until the roll over. I even simulated the approach again with my smaller 62 inch Hurricane that i had up there that day. Flown at such a distance that it appeared the same size and with the same camouflage pattern it was clear which way everything was pointing so i cant see how i could have messed it up.

Ultimately, i dont know what happened and that is the worst part.

Fast forward a week and Tim wanted me to have a go at breaking flying his as it either needed to earn its keep or go in the bin. Off we went again and for some reason this example flew better after being broken in half. It was better than i remember and more pitch stable than Chris's example the week before. Swooping around was quite nice but there were still these random pitch changes going on and it was hard work keeping the thing straight. Loops were a nightmare and rolls were weird as the model would climb while inverted if left unchecked. I think the incidence on the thing is just a total dogs dinner and Tims example has been improved a bit by getting snapped in half.

So, with great trepidation it was time to land and after quite some wrestling, i got the model down nicely. I breathed a heavy sigh of relief and muttered something derogatory about the model. This was met with some confusion as the landing looked lovely from the outside. I then did another lap of the field so the guys watching could focus on the tx this time and not the model. The result of this was more profanity as it came as quite a surprise just how much input was needed to get the blasted thing down without it ballooning away in the flare.

We do have a video, i will try and get it uploaded, and now i know how to get it down its fine and quite enjoyable, but long story short this thing is really not easy to fly and i wont be recommending it to anyone.

Tim Flyer07/09/2020 22:14:51
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1425 forum posts
258 photos

Thanks for posting this Jon. I was hoping you would give the pilots view .
As an observer the plane looked really great in the air, but when we looked at what you were having to do on the sticks to keep it stable, it was crazy. The stick movements needed for a landing are unbelievable!
I think Seagull need to redesign this model.
Seagull do make some really good flying planes such as their P47 which I own, I’m afraid I think this one is very badly flawed,

It seems quite revealing that there are no other reports of regular flying of this particular Hurricane .
This is quite surprising given how popular Hurricanes are. My guess is that most do not make it past their maiden flight.

 

Edited By Tim Flyer on 07/09/2020 22:15:54

Tim Flyer11/09/2020 10:51:27
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1425 forum posts
258 photos

Here is a link to a video we took of Jon landing the Hurricane again shortly after the above shots. The wind was a good WSW at about 14 mph with a slight cross wind down the runway which runs E to W.
The video was taken to show the quite large stick inputs needed rather than just viewing the plane.
**LINK**

Edited By Tim Flyer on 11/09/2020 10:52:00

Ron Gray11/09/2020 11:13:45
2539 forum posts
1016 photos

Very interesting especially very little rudder input and quite a bit of right aileron.

Edited By Ron Gray on 11/09/2020 11:15:40

Jon - Laser Engines11/09/2020 21:33:35
5763 forum posts
275 photos

In order to make life easy i landed a little diagonal to reduce the cross wind component. That is why i nearly fell off the runway the first time. I didnt want to use the rudder too much as it causes a large nose down pitch at high deflection.

As for the ailerons, they were busy keeping the wings level but its the elevator that is hard work.

Michael Kulagin14/09/2020 09:47:46
35 forum posts

Didn't want to start a new thread but there is an interesting article, for once, in today's Mail Online. It's titled 'bravery in the eye of a Hurricane' and written by Jane Fryer. It's about the Hurricane in the Battle of Britain and she takes a flight in a two seater Hurricane operated by Flyaspitfire based at Biggin Hill. There is a short clip of the Hurricane in action.

neil martin 102/10/2020 15:49:03
30 forum posts
9 photos

Looks like someone has got it nailed.....landings look good.

COG is 110mm and he's taken half an inch off of the length of the gear

https://youtu.be/0KoTlzU27-8

dave parnham02/10/2020 18:30:35
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197 forum posts
15 photos

He does mention a good Gyro system is a must in the comments devil

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