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Thunder Tiger Manual

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Winco Steve17/04/2019 14:47:26
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180 forum posts
3 photos

Hi all,

Does anyone know where I can download a manual/instructions for a Thunder Tiger FS 91 motor please?

Looked everywhere online, plenty of ‘come on’ sites that don’t actually have one but want to sell me something quite random!

Thanks for any help,

 

Winco Steve

 

 

Edited By Winco Steve on 17/04/2019 14:48:34

Jon - Laser Engines17/04/2019 15:36:17
4506 forum posts
164 photos

Treat it like an OS 91..or more or less any other 90 4 stroke. 5% nitro fuel with 15% synth oil. 14x7-8, 15x6-8 and perhaps 16x6 props, OS F glow plug and .1mm on the valve clearances.

A friend had one and ran it on laser 5 fuel with a 15x6 jxf prop. Went really well.

Percy Verance17/04/2019 15:48:46
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7793 forum posts
150 photos

Jon beat me to it. It's an OS copy - designed I believe by someone whom worked for OS - so can be run in pretty much the same way......

Quality is better than the Chinese clones.

Edited By Percy Verance on 17/04/2019 15:49:47

Winco Steve17/04/2019 16:44:06
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180 forum posts
3 photos

Hi Jon & Percy,

Thanks for the advice. It’s just been installed in a Seagull AT Texan with a 14x7 propeller. I was curious as to the rpm at max power just for assisting when tuning up with a tachometer ( I appreciate its a subject to if ‘s and buts!). I’m actually using 10% Nitro as that’s all my local suppliers can provide at the moment (Spain).

Thanks again,

Winco Steve

Jon - Laser Engines17/04/2019 17:03:07
4506 forum posts
164 photos

Dont tune with a tach. It will lead you down a path of chasing rpm and you dont want that. Just tune the engine by ear and make sure it holds power for 10-15 seconds. If so its off to the races.

Winco Steve17/04/2019 18:05:50
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180 forum posts
3 photos

Hi Jon,

Pretty much my view, hence the ‘if’s and buts’.The idea just evolved out of one of our many in-depth and quite amusing conversations down at the field today. The ‘electric boys’ were deep in conversation about power output/watts so the ic lot tagged on and tachometers came up and their use. I remembered I had one in my flight box (under everything else) and I thought I would just see what results I would obtain. Never used one to tune up before for over 40 years so doubt I ever will. Don’t ask ‘ well, why did you buy one then’? I can’t remember that either! Old age doesn’t come alone!

regards to all,

Winco Steve

 

Edited By Winco Steve on 17/04/2019 18:11:28

Denis Watkins17/04/2019 18:27:42
3559 forum posts
166 photos

In defence of the tacho Steve, and I will explain why

Is tickover, which can be too fast for a comfortable landing (3000rpm)

Or too slow (1800) where cooling can cause a deadstick

And all this because Hand on Heart, 4 of my flying buddies are partial or fully deaf

And they have little clue of the sound of tickover, where the tacho gives some idea

Winco Steve17/04/2019 18:37:48
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180 forum posts
3 photos

Hi Denis,

Thank you for that. An interesting perspective that I had not considered.

Kindest regards,

Winco Steve

Tony Richardson17/04/2019 21:01:42
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582 forum posts
25 photos

As much as I respect Jon I have to disagree because those of us with hearing problems cannot hear the fine changes in an engine after an adjustment, winco steve I have one of these engines and although on the heavy side for its size it will pull well I use a 13x8 on mine and it is fine,just make sure - as with all engines you get the high end right first, then spend as much time as necessary to get the low end correct, iy took me a whole afternoon, as the low end needle on this engine is very sensitive, be patient and it will reward you with long service.

 

Tony

Edited By Tony Richardson on 17/04/2019 21:03:14

Jon - Laser Engines17/04/2019 22:44:43
4506 forum posts
164 photos

not being able to hear is the only valid reason for using a tach to tune an engine and for those so afflicted that is fair enough.

The reason its a bad idea for everyone else is that the revs you see will vary day to day due to a number of factors.

If you have a cold day with air that is nice and dense the engine will usually run slower as there is more bite on the prop. The opposite is true for hot summer days when the air is thin. This can be counter intuitive as most would expect engines to run slower on the hot days as there is less air for the engine to burn and so less power is produced. While this is very true, its the load on the prop that will determine the revs, but revs dont mean power even though both are related. In any case, if you have ever flown on a hot day and found the engine ran fine but the model staggered around like a wounded elephant this is the reason.

In any case, if you see 8500 on one day, then 8300 on the next, you may be tempted to lean the engine off a bit as you go in search of your missing 200 revs. As you do this the engine will warm up, and revs may drop to 8200. Puzzled, you then twiddle some more and no matter how lean you screw it 8150 is now the best you can get as the engine sits there, flat out, getting hotter and hotter, and slower and slower. I see it all the time, dont do it. leave the tacho in the box and only use it for the odd reality check and for comparing props.

setting a low idle is vital and a tach can be handy in this regard but only because it tells you for sure what the revs are. The actual idle rpm will vary engine to engine but i would aim for 2000rpm on most 4 strokes around 90 size. Poor low end tuning and/or high nitro/oil fuel will hamper a nice idle. A good plug is also important.

When it comes to props my old os 91 used to go like the clappers on an apc 13x9 when fitted to my arc carosel. I would have used a larger prop but it would have hit the ground. I later used the engine in a cap 232 (14x7 apc) and a p40 warhawk (15x6). Dont be tempted to under prop 4 strokes and always favour diameter over pitch where possible.

Clearly final prop choice will come down to the model you intend to power with the engine. What was it you had in mind?

Mike T17/04/2019 23:14:33
392 forum posts
28 photos

I have a tacho in the box, but usually tune by ear. I'll occasionally use it to check a low throttle setting, but even then it's just - idle curiosity...

(I'll get me coat...)

Winco Steve18/04/2019 07:43:53
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180 forum posts
3 photos

Hi Tony & Jon,

Thank you for your replies. Jon, very interesting information and explanation. The model is a Seagull AT10 Texan with a prop size of 14x7 . The prop, according to my reference tables, is suitable for engine size plus it ‘looks right’ for the size of model. Try it on its maiden and assess! There’s clearly a section of us that find the tachometer a useful tool and others who see them, at best, as a satisfier of idle curiosity. Curiosity and cats!

Thanks again,

 

Winco Steve

 

Edited By Winco Steve on 18/04/2019 07:44:42

Jon - Laser Engines18/04/2019 08:47:03
4506 forum posts
164 photos

14x7 is a good start point for the t6. if you feel the model is running away a bit then you might want to try 15x6 instead. i use this on my laser 80 equipped hurricane as i found overall speed control easier and it prevented the model accelerating when off throttle in a dive

Winco Steve18/04/2019 11:33:51
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180 forum posts
3 photos

Thanks, developed into a very informative discussion, well for me anyway! By the way, I presume no one has an idea about a manual for the Thunder Tiger? 😉 How one subject can develop into another !

Enjoyed the thread,

Cheers all,

Winco Steve

Cuban818/04/2019 11:40:45
2402 forum posts
9 photos
Posted by Jon - Laser Engines on 17/04/2019 22:44:43:

not being able to hear is the only valid reason for using a tach to tune an engine and for those so afflicted that is fair enough.

The reason its a bad idea for everyone else is that the revs you see will vary day to day due to a number of factors.

If you have a cold day with air that is nice and dense the engine will usually run slower as there is more bite on the prop. The opposite is true for hot summer days when the air is thin. This can be counter intuitive as most would expect engines to run slower on the hot days as there is less air for the engine to burn and so less power is produced. While this is very true, its the load on the prop that will determine the revs, but revs dont mean power even though both are related. In any case, if you have ever flown on a hot day and found the engine ran fine but the model staggered around like a wounded elephant this is the reason.

In any case, if you see 8500 on one day, then 8300 on the next, you may be tempted to lean the engine off a bit as you go in search of your missing 200 revs. As you do this the engine will warm up, and revs may drop to 8200. Puzzled, you then twiddle some more and no matter how lean you screw it 8150 is now the best you can get as the engine sits there, flat out, getting hotter and hotter, and slower and slower. I see it all the time, dont do it. leave the tacho in the box and only use it for the odd reality check and for comparing props.

setting a low idle is vital and a tach can be handy in this regard but only because it tells you for sure what the revs are. The actual idle rpm will vary engine to engine but i would aim for 2000rpm on most 4 strokes around 90 size. Poor low end tuning and/or high nitro/oil fuel will hamper a nice idle. A good plug is also important.

When it comes to props my old os 91 used to go like the clappers on an apc 13x9 when fitted to my arc carosel. I would have used a larger prop but it would have hit the ground. I later used the engine in a cap 232 (14x7 apc) and a p40 warhawk (15x6). Dont be tempted to under prop 4 strokes and always favour diameter over pitch where possible.

Clearly final prop choice will come down to the model you intend to power with the engine. What was it you had in mind?

Jon, with your permission,I'm going to print this off and pin it to our club hut's notice board - needle twiddlers/dead stick artists will be directed to it .......................enlightenedlaugh

Jon - Laser Engines18/04/2019 17:44:08
4506 forum posts
164 photos

By all means Cuban.

Engine tuning is a topic that is pretty difficult to write down. As with flying, driving, sailing etc so much of it is down to feel and being able to understand what you are being told by your piece of equipment.

Apparently full size Gloster Gladiator pilots can tell if they are out of trim in yaw as the rigging wires on the wings 'sing' to them. P51 pilots can similarly tell they are approaching a stall due to the whistle of the air over the gun ports.

To me an engine out of tune sticks out like a sore thumb, and by out of tune i mean perhaps a few clicks of the needle at absolute most. Its a bit like when you spot a dead pixel on your tv. until you noticed it you had no idea anything was wrong. Now you know what to look for, you cant look at the tv without spotting it. Im sure any musicians in the house will be able to spot out of tune instruments a mile off and Its the same with engines. once you learn the language, its really easy to spot when they are unhappy.

Percy Verance18/04/2019 18:11:54
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7793 forum posts
150 photos

Mmm, I know where you're coming from here Jon. Many moons ago I worked for a while with a lady whom used to listen to a slightly off-tune radio while she worked. To her it obviously sounded fine, but it used to drive me mad.........

Woody4919/04/2019 09:33:58
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9 forum posts
5 photos

Pm sent to you - if you still want a copy of the TT manual

Regards

Steve

Winco Steve19/04/2019 09:59:21
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180 forum posts
3 photos

Hi Steve,

Please, a copy of the manual would be nice for future reference. How can you send it to be downloaded? Is it possible via this site?

Cheers,

Winco Steve

Winco Steve19/04/2019 10:57:29
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180 forum posts
3 photos

Hi Steve,

Just realised had your message in my personal mail.

Will reply with that.

Thanks

Winco Steve

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