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Saito and OS engine servicing

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Martin Levy21/04/2019 22:56:39
56 forum posts
30 photos

Can anyone service and repair Saito and OS four stroke engines or knows someone who can.

On the occasion I have sent mine to MacGregor industries they just seem more interested in overpricing and then telling you its cheaper to buy a new one and half the time I don't believe them frankly.

Please let me know.

Thanks

Martin

Frank Skilbeck21/04/2019 23:21:22
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4422 forum posts
101 photos

Club Mate just had his Saito radial repaired by **LINK**

SIMON CRAGG22/04/2019 04:37:23
373 forum posts
5 photos

Are you a member of a club?

Most clubs have an engine "expert".

With a bit of care, rc ic engines are not that difficult to repair, as long as you can get the spare parts.

Maybe get a cheap "doner" engine to strip?

Very satisfying to get them running again!.

Good luck.

Cuban822/04/2019 07:17:30
2564 forum posts
12 photos

Never owned a Saito but OS singles and their clones are quite straightforward to work on. As we find with certain radio repairs, unless the item is toward the top of the range, even a simple repair quickly becomes uneconomic to get fixed professionally, given labour at around the £50 per hour mark. Even worse with some engines, because of strip down time, cleaning, inspection, repair, reassembly and test. Then add VAT and postage on top. I'm not surprised that some companies will over-quote on  out of warranty repairs......there's very little, if anything,  in it for them

If it's just bearings that need attention, it's not that complex for most modellers to undertake themselves with just a few good quality tools to hand - and there's plenty of help available if you do run into a snag.

 

Edited By Cuban8 on 22/04/2019 07:23:22

Percy Verance22/04/2019 07:54:19
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8109 forum posts
155 photos

As fewer i.c. model engines are sold, the manufacturers will look to try to recoup the lost revenue on spares and servicing. Saito spares have always carried eye watering price tags, with OS spares prices not far behind. Sadly, it's led to a downward spiral. There are few whom would freely fork out £75 to £100 to have something like an OS .91fs serviced, and there lies the problem...........

And I don't believe them when they say it's cheaper to buy a new one either Martin, not at OS prices anyway. A list price of £350 for a .56fs alpha? Come on OS, get real. Ok, some of the shops will knock one out at 50 or 60 quid less, but it's still a healthy wedge for a 56 four stroke. 

And you can't box clever by buying an ASP or SC anymore as these seem to have been out of stock for months. 

Edited By Percy Verance on 22/04/2019 08:03:44

SIMON CRAGG22/04/2019 08:40:39
373 forum posts
5 photos
Posted by Percy Verance on 22/04/2019 07:54:19:

As fewer i.c. model engines are sold, the manufacturers will look to try to recoup the lost revenue on spares and servicing. Saito spares have always carried eye watering price tags, with OS spares prices not far behind. Sadly, it's led to a downward spiral. There are few whom would freely fork out £75 to £100 to have something like an OS .91fs serviced, and there lies the problem...........

And I don't believe them when they say it's cheaper to buy a new one either Martin, not at OS prices anyway. A list price of £350 for a .56fs alpha? Come on OS, get real. Ok, some of the shops will knock one out at 50 or 60 quid less, but it's still a healthy wedge for a 56 four stroke.

And you can't box clever by buying an ASP or SC anymore as these seem to have been out of stock for months.

Edited By Percy Verance on 22/04/2019 08:03:44

Agreed.

I wonder what to make of the "ASP / SC Factory is moving", which I have read on a couple of sites. Is this the end of the cheaper ic engines we all know and love?.

ken anderson.22/04/2019 08:58:59
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8415 forum posts
772 photos

my long departed friend showed me how to change the bearings in an OS 4/st...his motto"they are only nuts and bolts"...….. if you are methodical about it, its not so hard to take them to bits and reassemble them...

ken anderson...ne..1...nuts and bolts dept.

Jon - Laser Engines22/04/2019 08:59:57
4723 forum posts
174 photos

I dont know if just engines offer service on engines. it might be worth a call.

To expand on cuban's comments, he is quite right. At laser we offer service on our engines and its as cheap as we can really make it at £82 for parts, labour and return post. This covers the bearings, piston ring and valve springs as well as a clean up, then a test run on the bench.

This is really as cheap as it can be and yet its still a large percentage of the purchase price of a £210 engine like our 70. Its a good value if the engine lasts 8-10 years before needing service but debris ingestion, corrosion or crash damage can easily prompt an earlier service so look after your engines!

 

Edited By Jon - Laser Engines on 22/04/2019 09:03:57

Percy Verance22/04/2019 09:00:47
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8109 forum posts
155 photos

A difficult question to answer Simon. You'd have thought that by now at least, Just Engines would have had more information.......

The *factory is moving* thing has been ongoing for months, with seemingly no updates. You could be forgiven for wondering if, given the overall trend in model engine sales, they've called it a day? Certainly in the last few years ASP prices have risen noticeably..........

Jon, you are fortunate in that Laser are in a strong position now. Yet there are still model flyers out there whom have never heard of or seen a Laser engine....... I met one at the Blackpool Club fly in last year.

 

 

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 22/04/2019 09:07:14

Paul Marsh22/04/2019 11:16:08
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3645 forum posts
1017 photos

I wanted a head for a Saito engine, but was told by Macgregor, that you can't get parts, so a new head for a Saito is £530, but you get rest of the engine free!

Same for a OS 10 LA head, - can't get them, but then price £44 got you a new head, and the rest of the engine free...

Martin Harris22/04/2019 11:34:33
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8669 forum posts
214 photos

Odd - was this for an older Saito which was no longer being produced or were you speaking to someone in their office that didn't realise that the head was integral with the cylinder - possibly nothing was listed if they were trying to locate a cylinder head? I've bought spares for Saitos in the past with little difficulty and some were even fairly reasonably priced!

P.S. Just Engines list heads for OS 10 LAs for just £7.99 if you're still looking!

Edited By Martin Harris on 22/04/2019 11:45:00

Percy Verance22/04/2019 16:02:46
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8109 forum posts
155 photos

Very true Martin, you can't buy a Saito cylinder head at any price.......

Martin Levy22/04/2019 21:40:07
56 forum posts
30 photos

thanks for all the help. Guess im going to have to teach myself to fix them. Made a start on an ancient engine that's never worked and couldn't even get the screws undone (hex screws worn) or remove the rocker assembly. great start

Denis Watkins22/04/2019 21:44:14
3736 forum posts
178 photos

Make notes and take pictures as you go Martin

For the rebuild

Martin Harris22/04/2019 22:29:17
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8669 forum posts
214 photos

How ancient? Some engines would have used Imperial fixings so check that you are using the correct sizes.

Jon Laughton23/04/2019 10:27:14
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1172 forum posts
104 photos

Just Engines do offer engine servicing so just give them a call for a chat

Cuban823/04/2019 13:19:57
2564 forum posts
12 photos
Posted by Jon - Laser Engines on 22/04/2019 08:59:57:

I dont know if just engines offer service on engines. it might be worth a call.

To expand on cuban's comments, he is quite right. At laser we offer service on our engines and its as cheap as we can really make it at £82 for parts, labour and return post. This covers the bearings, piston ring and valve springs as well as a clean up, then a test run on the bench.

This is really as cheap as it can be and yet its still a large percentage of the purchase price of a £210 engine like our 70. Its a good value if the engine lasts 8-10 years before needing service but debris ingestion, corrosion or crash damage can easily prompt an earlier service so look after your engines!

 

Edited By Jon - Laser Engines on 22/04/2019 09:03:57

What! £82 all in? Labour and parts? Your margin must be miniscule and hardly worth the bother, but I applaud your actions.

I worked as an in-house repair tech for a few years, back in the 90s - working on electrical supply test equipment and associated accessories like printers etc for a UK distributor. The minimum charge then was IIRC £125 and that was just to open the box and put the kit on the bench. Courier charges extra.

Edited By Cuban8 on 23/04/2019 13:21:48

Jon - Laser Engines23/04/2019 14:29:35
4723 forum posts
174 photos
Posted by Cuban8 on 23/04/2019 13:19:57:
Posted by Jon - Laser Engines on 22/04/2019 08:59:57:

Edited By Jon - Laser Engines on 22/04/2019 09:03:57

What! £82 all in? Labour and parts? Your margin must be miniscule and hardly worth the bother, but I applaud your actions.

from a business point of view it probably isnt worth the bother, but its a service we offer that other manufacturers dont. Not all of our customers are technically minded enough, or confident enough to attempt the work themselves. Then there is the tooling side as i have the ability to hone cylinders, re-cut valve seats and get the cams back in the right place. This is especially so on the twins where two of the cams are in backwards so you cant see what you are doing. So, we offer the service and i know it is something many of our customers value.

Incidentally, its the cost of this sort of work that prevents anyone setting up a business dedicated to it. If the work was charged in such a way that it made more than pocket money people just wouldnt pay it as its cheaper to buy a new engine, especially if it was an inexpensive engine in the first place.

Just as an example using laser, lets say you have a whoopsie and pile drive your model into the floor. You return it to me for inspection/service. After a big impact its always worth changing the front bearing, but while its apart you might as well do the rear one as well. Again as its in bits why not do the ring and valve springs, that way its almost as new from a wearing component standpoint. That brings you to the 82 quid mentioned earlier and for a £200 ish engine thats 5 or more years old..perhaps that isnt such a bad deal. But what if the impact broke the carb and exhaust, and what if it distorted the prop driver (its designed to deform to take load off the crank)? Well now the bill is up around £160, and thats getting close to making anything below our 100 (£260 new) beyond economical repair.

In the case of ASP, as most of the component and labour prices will be similar it makes anything below about a 90 size not worth repairing from the point of view of a business as its just not economical for the customer.

trebor23/04/2019 18:42:41
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1902 forum posts
214 photos

All I can say is Laser engines are nicer to work on for setting valve clearances and rebuilding. yes

Jon - Laser Engines23/04/2019 22:05:44
4723 forum posts
174 photos
Posted by trebor on 23/04/2019 18:42:41:

All I can say is Laser engines are nicer to work on for setting valve clearances and rebuilding. yes

unless you forget to take a photo of the cams. we dont put timing marks on them so you are on your own with that one

and no, i have no idea why we dont. Its a bit like not stamping the size of the engine on the crankcase, although that issue has been fixed. 

As for ease of rebuild enya 4 strokes were always good as well. Like laser you can do a bearing swap by undoing only 4 bolts and without faffing about with the cams. i dont think any of their engines suffered from that nonsense of trying to tap the gudgeon pin out through a hole in the back of the case either so that is a major plus.

for the biggest headache prize  its either the asp 400 radial or the os 240 pegasus. The radial was a right faff getting the timing gears right and getting all 5 cylinders back on again but I will award it to the pegasus though as it used 6 different sizes of bearing and i think it was 13 different sizes of screw. Why?? Why would you do this? it made a very simple concept into a right pain in the backside. Especially as you needed to modify an allen key to fit the cylinder hold down bolts and allow you to tighten them without scratching the anodizing on the fins. Its been worth it in the end though  

Edited By Jon - Laser Engines on 23/04/2019 22:19:07

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