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CAA registration consulation

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Percy Verance27/04/2019 14:30:42
8108 forum posts
155 photos

They inevitably all died alan? Now why am I not surprised?

I have answered the consultation. But sadly I rather think that somewhere deep in Whitehall, minds have already been made up..... I think we're simply moving deckchairs around on the Titanic.

Edited By Percy Verance on 27/04/2019 14:31:26

Paul Marsh27/04/2019 14:33:13
3743 forum posts
1070 photos

A question: Is the the new proposed bill for Drones (Quads, etc) or for all models, such as aircraft, helicopters and the like?

If for Unmanned UAV's and Drones only then maybe justified, but for all models, then I can see this being the end of model flying in the UK?

Percy Verance27/04/2019 14:36:56
8108 forum posts
155 photos

It's for the lot Paul. Everything. You are asked to choose what type of model you operate when filling in the consultation. Model Aircraft are just one of the choices.

This lot will truly rip the heart out of our hobby........ kevin b. I'm not so sure you could describe the thread as interesting. Devastating might be more fitting.......


Edited By Percy Verance on 27/04/2019 14:45:46

Gary Manuel27/04/2019 14:39:21
1988 forum posts
1514 photos

An extract from the consultation document Paul:

1.2 All those in the UK operating drones or model aircraft between 250 grams and 20 kilograms must register by the end of November 2019. From the same period, remote pilots will be required to take an online safety test. Failure to comply with these rules could lead to a fine of £1,0001.

MattyB27/04/2019 14:44:53
1978 forum posts
30 photos
Posted by kevin b on 27/04/2019 14:14:08:

This is an interesting little thread !

here are some questions.

How many of you buy season tickets for anything ?

How about TV licences ?

Digital TV, or mobile phone packages ?

Pay for parking when going shopping ?

It is a fact of life that services have a cost, one way or another.

Less than 32p per week is not a lot to pay for regulation in a hobby that sadly needs it.

The BMFA, as we all know are totally unable to regulate the hobby, and as a consequence of lack of regulation, we now have this "drone" problem".

What? There is plenty of regulation of the hobby already. Every single high profile case of recent times (including the Gatwick incident) could be prosecuted in a court, should the authorities be able to find evidence identifying the perpetrator(s). Therein lies the problem though - there aren’t resources or will for effective enforcement of these regulations. Adding pilot registration into the mix won’t make any difference there, but it will make a decent headline for Daily Mail readers which is probably a major driver of the politicians behind this.

Edited By MattyB on 27/04/2019 14:46:49

Percy Verance27/04/2019 14:49:48
8108 forum posts
155 photos

Trouble is Kevin - it's been said before - no amount of legislation will control those whom couldn't care one jot, or whom aren't even aware of any legislation.......

And most of the things you listed are choices. You can choose whether to have/pay for them or not. There is no choice here, it's being forced on us........ There are just two ways to avoid paying the fee. Go rogue or leave the hobby to move to something else with no registration involved.  The biggest potential problem with going rogue is that you'll have no Flyer Number, so if you happen to be involved in an accident, you may need to sell your house to cover the claim. 




Edited By Percy Verance on 27/04/2019 15:13:08

Cliff Bastow27/04/2019 14:56:42
830 forum posts
427 photos

MP,s have a lot on there plate! as someone who has just had to work 3 -12 hour days over the 4 day Easter break I feel really sorry  that when they finally get back after there extended break they might have to try and sort some problems out!  Mostly of there own making to be honest.

Rant over and yes I know its slightly off topic.

Edited By Cliff Bastow on 27/04/2019 14:57:28

Percy Verance27/04/2019 15:02:56
8108 forum posts
155 photos

Speaking purely personally Cliff, I can't say I'm too bothered about what's on MP's plates. In fact I hope that, at worst it almost chokes them, and at best leaves a nasty taste in their mouth.......



Edited By Percy Verance on 27/04/2019 15:11:28

Shaun Walsh27/04/2019 15:20:35
206 forum posts
13 photos

Two things:

The BMFA already hold a database of members, therefore either:

It could be made available to the CAA at little cost meaning that BMFA membership is de-facto registration.

Alternatively anyone who wants to fly a drone has to be a member of the BMFA and the CAA don't have to run the system at all.

As to who pays, as this is for the protection of passengers, aircraft operators and airports I am sure a small levy per passenger or plane departure would more than pay for the scheme

But lets face it, the sort of person who is happy to fly a drone in restricted airspace probably won't realise that they need to register and if they do realise probably won't bother. It's a bit like drink driving, you can reduce the blood alcohol level at which it is legal to drive but it will have no effect because people who drink and drive will do so no matter what the law says, the only way to solve a problem like this is by rigorous enforcement and prosecution but that is far too difficult and therefore expensive, far easier to have a registration system that only affects the law abiding, a bit like gun licencing, how many armed robbers have a firearms licence?

Ok, rant over frown

kevin b27/04/2019 15:29:04
1678 forum posts
124 photos

I agree Percy, but we CHOOSE to fly model aeroplanes.

Another couple of questions.

If we still had to pay the licence fee (as in days of yore) as a legal requirement, how many of us would still be flying ?

As "drones" are radio controlled, then anyone buying one would have had to obtain a licence. How many would have been imported and sold ?

Would we still be in the same position as today ?

We all cheered when the licence fee was removed. Maybe it has come back to bite us ?

Anybody want to talk about dog licences ?


Engine Doctor27/04/2019 15:33:15
2341 forum posts
28 photos

A load of very valid points in these posts . Unfortunately none of them will be read or listened to by anyone in government who has influence. I have lost faith in any politician , whatever party they represent as they are only in politics for themselves . We can only fight this collectively and I hope collectively means the model flying organisations BMFA, LMA etc. Alas I feel that the decision has already been made and that this consultation is merely an afterthought. Like many I have completed the consultation and written to my MP but won't hold my breath or even expect an answer.

GONZO27/04/2019 15:36:17
1301 forum posts
14 photos

I'm with the rebels on here! No registration and no fee. Sub 250gm and anything else at my friends field at his house which is at the end of a single track dead end road in rural North Wales.

IMO we need to stop putting the whole blame on the rogue operators, if indeed they are just that and not 'controlled' establishment operators, at least in some events, providing a 'crisis' for which a solution already exists which will deliver the required end result of removing us from the lower airspace.

They are not the main cause by a long way. They are jus being used as a 'stick to beat us with'.

Years back at the start of all this I said that we were not wanted AT ALL in the lower airspace. I was shouted down and dismissed by many. The lower airspace had become a commodity for sale and we were contaminating it with our presence reducing its value. It is easier to suffocate an activity to death, if time exists, with increasing registration fees and regulation than create a sudden step change with a ban. A ban can used at a later date once the number of participants have been reduced sufficiently if pressures dictate.

Latterly, due to concessions I had softened my view and started to become more optimistic. Regrettably this announcement has reversed this attitude.

Undoubtedly, there are those that will pay whatever price and jump through as many hoops as is necessary. But, they require a club in which to continue their activities. As numbers of members decrease, as they surely will, then a minimum critical mass will be reached and clubs will fold leaving these people with no where to go. Thus aeromodelling will be consigned to history.

I hope, most fervently, that the CAA row back on these proposals. Although, I fear it will be no more than a stay of execution rather than a free pardon.

Percy Verance27/04/2019 15:39:03
8108 forum posts
155 photos

You've lost faith in politicians ED? I never had any to begin with......

Like you, I feel the decision is already made. This legislation is but a side story to get rid of us in the name of commercialisation............

And Kevin, why should choosing to fly model aeroplanes incur a fee? It's a hobby, just like trainspotting, stamp collecting or fellwalking. We're simply in the wrong place at the wrong time, and we're about to suffer hugely for it.......

And no I don't want to talk about dog licences, as I have no wish to own one.  Although just at the moment, Shitzu ownership might have it's merits.........

Shaun. All the databases already exist, and the CAA could readily acquire information about clubs or even individuals from the various organisations. But of course there'd be no £16.50 involved would there?



Edited By Percy Verance on 27/04/2019 15:56:57

GONZO27/04/2019 15:48:19
1301 forum posts
14 photos

Commercialisation, international corporations and their role in governing countries etc. Oh Percy, so many things that are wrong in our societies/countries/culture and Western civilisation stem from these sources. But, off topic so no more to be said.

Old Geezer27/04/2019 15:51:57
640 forum posts

Even if we ALL do register it will not make model flying any safer to the general public than it is now i.e. the odds of any member of the public going about their lawful occasions being injured by a lawfully flown model are something like several millions to one. The application of a registration number to said legally flown plane will neither increase nor decrease such odds. However it seems that hobby full size pilots regard complying with the CAA reg's as optional, only last week someone flew an autogyro flat out straight over our patch at no more than a couple of hundred feet, and then banked and came back for another look, again straight across the patch, two petrol Wot4XLs in the air and another two stroke being tuned in the pits - so, no, we didn't hear the interloper coming, he just appeared from behind the pits - we didn't have a chance. Unfortunately we were unable to see any registration markings so - - - - but I'll guess he hasn't reported an airprox. And if the pilot had driven his autogyro into one of the Wotties at full chat - -

Percy Verance27/04/2019 16:00:13
8108 forum posts
155 photos

They're not in the least bit interested in safety Old Geezer. They've simply seen an opportunity to introduce a levy where there wasn't one previously. It's the figures I find scary. Where the hell did they get 170'000 from? And, leading on from that, how long will it be before 40 or 50 thousand - which is probably nearer the true figure - are having to fork out the fees the CAA thought  they were going to pull in from 170k?


Edited By Percy Verance on 27/04/2019 16:05:43

GONZO27/04/2019 16:04:26
1301 forum posts
14 photos

I think, at the current rate, they will be lucky to get 25,000. That's less than a 6th of their figures. Pro rata it would mean the fee going up to £100 to maintain the projected income.

Percy Verance27/04/2019 16:12:47
8108 forum posts
155 photos

I think we can be clear about one part of it GONZO. Out of the 30 odd thousand BMFA members I think they'll perhaps get 80% sign up. The rest need not necessarily be considered as *rogues*. I think many will simply just call it a day. Indeed, I spoke to a member of our club only this morning. He called me to say he would be giving up flying to return to model boating...........

Over the years I've also met long time flyers - some even from the 50's - whom have had no inclination whatsoever to take even an "A" test. They certainly won't be registering and paying a fee......


Edited By Percy Verance on 27/04/2019 16:16:19

john stones 127/04/2019 16:20:27
10762 forum posts
1481 photos

Find this thread quite funny myself. face 1

BMFA fee goes up "It's only X amount a week" How much a week does this amount to ?

Politicians getting some stick ? Well the French ain't being charged owt. wink

Titanic n deck chairs, really ? I fished, it's cost a fair bit, national license, association books, peg fees, match fees, £16.50 a year ? We don't know how lucky we are, compared to other hobbies.

Drones, or "Proper" models ? That debates long gone, give it a rest for gods sake.

We are having our pockets picked, because they can, I will fill the consultation form in as requested by the BMFA, whatever the result, it ain't the end of the world.

Now for the serious stuff...Who's gonna monitor this within clubs ? Those dreadful over officious committee men, in their yellow vests with anti fun police written large on the back ? and how long before it's all the fault of the BMFA.

Percy Verance27/04/2019 16:30:02
8108 forum posts
155 photos

But the point here John, is exactly what will we be getting for our £16.50 if we choose to pay it? It'll make sod all difference to the safety of our hobby or the way it's run, because we take care of that ourselves. Like you said, we're being hit because we're here and some Whitehall guttersnipe knows we have a few bob to spare......

The BMFA? Are they still going? It's been some time since I was a member. Time flies 'ya know......and the way things seem to be going, it may just be the only thing that is flying before too long. 

The French probably aren't being charged anything because they'll almost certainly need every last franc to fix their cars. That's if the last Peugeot I owned was a typical example..........and you know how it is over there John. Charge too much for 'owt, and on goes the hi viz vest and they kick up a stink.






Edited By Percy Verance on 27/04/2019 16:47:30

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