By continuing to use this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more
Forum sponsored by:
Forum sponsored by CML

Interesting reply from email to Richard Moriarty, CAA

All Topics | Latest Posts

Search for:  in Thread Title in  
Martin Harris22/05/2019 20:50:38
avatar
8473 forum posts
212 photos

Hopefully this posting will be in order - David did say that "anyone can start a new thread in the light of new developments".

I received what seems to be a generic reply but interestingly it does state that in addition to continuing talks with the organisations, the CAA are considering the possibility of "model aircraft associations or clubs as operators: model aircraft associations or clubs would have the option of registering as the operator with their members acting as remote pilots. In this scenario, the association or club would need to meet any legal requirements and take accountability and responsibility for the actions of their members, and members would need to abide by the remote pilot requirements."

Quite how this would affect the funding model if 40,000 or more operators registered under the 4 major organisations is not mentioned but I think it suggests that the CAA are taking some notice of comments made to them and aren't necessarily the bad guys in this situation.

Dwain Dibley.22/05/2019 20:57:42
avatar
1217 forum posts
1242 photos

Thanks for posting that Martin, sounds promising. yes

D.D.

Cliff Bastow22/05/2019 21:02:04
avatar
809 forum posts
426 photos

I received exactly the same message today Martin.

Did you also notice that it stated this was not being done because of ESA regulations but was to Government request? It also stated that they would look at ESA regulations in 2020 when it becomes active.

Cliff.

Martin Harris22/05/2019 21:03:08
avatar
8473 forum posts
212 photos

Another interesting point is that these proposals may not be set in stone and the situation may change in a year or so - whether for better or worse is not specified!

The EASA regulation on drones, which contains some specific provisions for model aircraft associations, is expected to be published in final form shortly and will start to come into force sometime during 2020. Once that regulation is in force in the UK we would then expect to review and, where necessary, align the UK approach with that EASA regulation. At present, however, we are working towards a DRES system that aligns with UK law and policy.

Martin Harris22/05/2019 22:05:02
avatar
8473 forum posts
212 photos
Posted by Cliff Bastow on 22/05/2019 21:02:04:

Did you also notice that it stated this was not being done because of ESA regulations but was to Government request? It also stated that they would look at ESA regulations in 2020 when it becomes active.

Yes...and in case anyone's confused, I was posting it while you were reminding me! laugh

Doc Marten22/05/2019 22:15:08
229 forum posts
2 photos

This is all very interesting.

Am I right in saying that ESA are happy that operators can register en masse, we have written to our MP's and the relevant departments, asking for the government to implement the ESA option and the CAA have now said that the government are considering this but not because of the ESA suggestion?

Steve J22/05/2019 22:36:53
avatar
1092 forum posts
37 photos

I didn't realise that the European Space Agency were getting involved in the unmanned aircraft regulations.

The most obvious difference between the March EU/EASA draft and the ANO is the EU regulation has age limits for the remote pilot.

The draft also has this:

"Member States may enable model aircraft clubs and associations to register their members into the registration systems established in accordance with Article 14 on their behalf. If this is not the case, the members of model aircraft clubs and associations shall register themselves in accordance with Article 14."

Note the word 'may' and the fact that that people still have to be registered.

Steve

Reno Racer23/05/2019 06:14:33
avatar
1134 forum posts
165 photos

European Aviation Safety Agency

cymaz23/05/2019 06:27:41
avatar
8431 forum posts
1159 photos

I had the same email. I am correct in thinking the BMFA could be the association that registers on behalf of all its members? £16.50 divided by 30,000 ? I think even I could find that

Simon Chaddock23/05/2019 09:00:57
avatar
5370 forum posts
2818 photos

Is this not like the agreement that has been reached in Canada? Membership and only at 'approved' sites..

It does raise the issue that it would in effect be 'preferential' legislation suggesting any flying outside 'approved' sites would require individuals to meet the full registration requirements, and costs, whether or not they were organisation members.

Not ideal but it is probably an attractive route to legislators and is along the lines of the role of the BGA and LAA

Edited By Simon Chaddock on 23/05/2019 09:01:39

Nigel R23/05/2019 09:35:55
avatar
2720 forum posts
445 photos

Do I read this right?

You would still get to fly any sub 250g stuff, anywhere you wanted, of course, without any of the test or registration.

It would be individual registration as operator for country members (and non-members, or clubs with individual insurance schemes) - but then, fly as before.

Regular club members would get to carry on pretty much as is though, BMFA/LMA/etc would sort the paperwork required to register.

Presumably, everyone would still need to do the competency test.

Cuban823/05/2019 10:57:55
2442 forum posts
10 photos
Posted by Martin Harris on 22/05/2019 20:50:38:

Hopefully this posting will be in order - David did say that "anyone can start a new thread in the light of new developments".

I received what seems to be a generic reply but interestingly it does state that in addition to continuing talks with the organisations, the CAA are considering the possibility of "model aircraft associations or clubs as operators: model aircraft associations or clubs would have the option of registering as the operator with their members acting as remote pilots. In this scenario, the association or club would need to meet any legal requirements and take accountability and responsibility for the actions of their members, and members would need to abide by the remote pilot requirements."

Quite how this would affect the funding model if 40,000 or more operators registered under the 4 major organisations is not mentioned but I think it suggests that the CAA are taking some notice of comments made to them and aren't necessarily the bad guys in this situation.

I think we might be making a little headway with this, although it's still going to be of little value in enforcing the law as we've banged on about enough times.

I'd go with the scheme run by the BMFA, that way it'll be centralised and more efficient than relying on individual clubs, many of whom struggle to deal with keeping their own membership bumph in order. As memb sec for my club, it doesn't bother me either way from an administrative point of view, but the 'accountability and responsibilty' bit will need to be clarified.

Jason-I23/05/2019 11:51:11
94 forum posts
31 photos

I've had no response to any of my emails yet. I have just emailed them all again with the standard line "just checking you received my email as I don't appear to have received a response."

I won't hold my breath - especially with my MP, who by all accounts is disinterested in his constituents and completely self serving. Lets hope he proves me wrong!

Steve J23/05/2019 12:16:43
avatar
1092 forum posts
37 photos

I disagree with the title of this topic. The CAA email is not interesting. It doesn't actually say anything that we didn't know already.

Steve

PS It also contains a factual error. Plans for a UK drone registration and education scheme do not stem from the UK Government’s consultation in 2018 on the future UK policy framework for drones. They go back much further than that.

Jason-I23/05/2019 12:19:19
94 forum posts
31 photos

I've been researching our minister of aviation. It doesn't appear that she has any background in aviation whatsoever. It always amazes (shocks) me that ministers are appointed to roles for which they have no prior knowledge, experience or understanding. Perhaps we need to invite her to a flying event......

Edited By Jason Inskip on 23/05/2019 12:20:33

Bobby23/05/2019 13:06:17
avatar
80 forum posts
140 photos

Have just received a reply from the CAA which I found "basically", already decided but a change may be forthcoming in the future when the EASA thing is finally settled. jam or NOT who knows!!

The reply from my MP was very encouraging in so much as he is going to contact the CAA Chief Executive for an explanation on how this would control the people who we call rogue flyers and what course of action were they planning to control that, plus other questions that come to mind and get back to me when he has a reply, but of course he still states the government line regarding it in general. Bob the Bobble surprise

Simon Chaddock23/05/2019 14:20:04
avatar
5370 forum posts
2818 photos

Nigel R

As far as I can tell all the relevant documents state they apply to UAVs "over 250g".

Dickw23/05/2019 14:45:05
avatar
423 forum posts
71 photos
Posted by Nigel R on 23/05/2019 09:35:55:

Do I read this right?

You would still get to fly any sub 250g stuff, anywhere you wanted, of course, without any of the test or registration.

...................................

 

From CAP 1763:-

"You must not fly a small unmanned aircraft within the flight restriction zone of a protected aerodrome without first ensuring that you have permission to do so. The volume of airspace that comprises a ‘flight restriction zone’ is outlined in a table at paragraph (7) of article 94A. The flight restriction zone is active at all times and applies to all small unmanned aircraft of any mass (even very small ‘toys' )" .

So no, you can't fly sub 250gm stuff anywhere you want.

Dick

Edited By Dickw on 23/05/2019 14:46:56

Edited By Dickw on 23/05/2019 14:48:00

Nigel R23/05/2019 15:23:49
avatar
2720 forum posts
445 photos

You're quite right Dick. I phrased that sentence rather badly.

Jason-I23/05/2019 23:45:13
94 forum posts
31 photos

 

From CAP 1763:-

"You must not fly a small unmanned aircraft within the flight restriction zone of a protected aerodrome without first ensuring that you have permission to do so. The volume of airspace that comprises a ‘flight restriction zone’ is outlined in a table at paragraph (7) of article 94A. The flight restriction zone is active at all times and applies to all small unmanned aircraft of any mass (even very small ‘toys' )" .

So no, you can't fly sub 250gm stuff anywhere you want.

 

 

The absurdity of this law staggers me. I live just within the 5km boundary of a flight restriction zone. The airfield in question does not operate after dark. During daylight hours, there might be one or two light aircraft movements per day. I am not really a drone flyer (fixed wing is where I'm at), but my wife did buy me a nano qx a few years ago - so that I had something I could fly in the back garden whilst recovering from a cancer operation. The nano qx has a flying weight of 15 grammes. Due to this new regulation, I cannot fly this tiny little thing in my back garden at any height at any time of day whatsoever without breaking the law - unless I obtain permission from ATC.

Can you just imagine that conversation:

Me: Hello, is that ATC?

ATC: Yes

ME: I am requesting permission to fly my nano qx in my back garden. I am 4.9km away from you. My nano QX is about the size and weight of a large butterfly. I will be unlikely to exceed 15ft altitude as I cannot see it beyond that.

ATC: What is a nano QX?

Me: It's a quadcopter

ATC: Is that one of those drone things?

Me: Yes

ATC: Permission denied. Drones are a danger to aircraft.

Me: But...

ATC: bzzzz (hung up)...

 

angry

 

 

 

 

Edited By Jason Inskip on 23/05/2019 23:45:38

All Topics | Latest Posts

Please login to post a reply.

Magazine Locator

Want the latest issue of RCM&E? Use our magazine locator link to find your nearest stockist!

Find RCM&E! 

Latest Forum Posts
Support Our Partners
Revoc
Gliders Distribution
CML
Motion RC
electricwingman 2017
Slec
Wings & Wheels 2019
Pepe Aircraft
Advertise With Us
Sarik
Latest "For Sale" Ads
Does your club have a safety officer?
Q: Does your club have a safety officer, or is the emphasis on individual members to each be their own safety officer?

 Yes we have a SO
 No, it's down to everyone

Latest Reviews
Digital Back Issues

RCM&E Digital Back Issues

Contact us

Contact us