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Interesting reply from email to Richard Moriarty, CAA

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Steve J06/08/2019 15:42:01
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Posted by Colin Bernard on 31/07/2019 16:25:39:

It will be interesting to see the answer to one of the other questions Lee Rowley submitted - "To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, what assessment he has made of the potential merits of using British Model Flying Association drone registration data to avoid duplicate registrations in the UK Drone Registration Scheme."

Paul Maynard MP has replied:

"Small unmanned aircraft (SUAs) can be enormously beneficial, both commercially and as a leisure pursuit. However, SUAs also have the potential to pose a safety and security threat so it is important that those operating them understand the law and their responsibilities as a remote pilot of an aircraft in UK airspace.

"The changes to the Air Navigation Order laid before Parliament in May 2018 require that all operators of SUAs of all types weighing 250g – 20kg must register their aircraft by 30 November 2019.

"The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) is working with the British Model Flying Association to see whether, as a service to their members, they may want to assist in the initial upload of data. The CAA will be launching an awareness-raising campaign to ensure that new and existing operators and remote pilots of small unmanned aircraft (SUAs) are aware of the requirement to register and take a competency test by 30 November 2019."

Note the error in the second paragraph.

Steve

Colin Bernard06/08/2019 16:55:05
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And exactly the same answer was given to a question Lee Rowley submitted regarding the publicising of the new regs. In neither case was the actual question answered. Not surprised but makes me wonder why we bother paying their wages.

Edited By Colin Bernard on 06/08/2019 16:55:22

Jason-I06/08/2019 18:08:59
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Been thinking about this whole registration melarchary and wondering if we have a legitimate argument against it as we predominantly fly over private land.

For example, you do not need a drivers license or road tax or insurance to drive on private land.

According to the high court, at common law 'the right of a landowner to the airspace above their land is to such a height as necessary for the ordinary use and enjoyment of their land and the structures upon it.'

If the ordinary use of the land is to fly model aircraft, and we are below the CAA imposed limit of 400ft, how would we be breaking the law by not registering our aircraft? We would be exclusively using our own airspace.

Jason-I06/08/2019 18:10:51
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Also, how would commercial drone deliveries EVER be legal within the current restrictions of minimum separation between people and buildings?

Peter Christy06/08/2019 18:16:33
1831 forum posts

That's very interesting, Jason! I was under the impression that ownership of land didn't extend to the airspace above it! Do you have references for that?

All the sites that I fly from are private land - mostly farmer's fields - but one is pretty much exclusively for model flying. That would certainly give me some wriggle room, and I suspect others as well!

--

Pete

J D 806/08/2019 18:47:01
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Some farmers around here have some very high wind turbines on their land, so is everything below that private airspace?

Jason-I06/08/2019 18:50:25
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Landowners in England and Wales are not entitled to all the airspace above their land, the position is well summed up by Griffiths J in Bernstein of Leigh v Skyviews & General Limited [1978] 1QB

The problem is to balance the rights of an owner to enjoy the use of his land against the rights of the general public to take advantage of all that science now offers in the use of air space. This balance is in my judgment best struck in our present society by restricting the rights of an owner in the air space above his land to such height as is necessary for the ordinary use and enjoyment of his land and the structures upon it, and declaring that above that height he has no greater rights in the air space than any other member of the public.

So, if our normal use and enjoyment of the land is flying model aircraft to 400ft, then surely we can claim this as our airspace.

Steve J06/08/2019 18:51:03
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Posted by Jason-I on 06/08/2019 18:08:59:

how would we be breaking the law by not registering our aircraft?

We don't have to register our aircraft. We have to register ourselves. We have to register ourselves because the ANO says so. The ANO can say so because of the Civil Aviation Act.

Steve

Jason-I06/08/2019 18:59:44
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Posted by Steve J on 06/08/2019 18:51:03:

We don't have to register our aircraft. We have to register ourselves. We have to register ourselves because the ANO says so. The ANO can say so because of the Civil Aviation Act.

Steve

You know what I meant!

We don't have to register ourselves to drive on private land

We don't need to register ourselves to fly indoors (that's our airspace!)

Why do we need to register ourselves to use the private airspace we legitimately own above our land?

Former Member06/08/2019 19:04:29
47 forum posts

[This posting has been removed]

Jason-I06/08/2019 19:18:41
330 forum posts
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Posted by Jeremy Wilkins on 06/08/2019 19:04:29:

Jason-I

You have a private message.smiley

Cheers,

Jeremy Wilkins

Replied wink

Michael Barclay07/08/2019 08:35:23
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On BBC News this morning. (I wonder who else will be seeking rule changes shortly. Amazon et all)

The UK's Maritime & Coastguard Agency (MCA) is seeking to use drones to aid emergency rescue operations and carry out surveillance of ships off the south-west coast of England.

The agency has invited specialists to bid for a £990,000 contract before a deadline of 19 August.

It says unmanned aircraft could help it cut costs and become more efficient.

But it acknowledges that rules would need to be eased for regular flights beyond an operator's line-of-sight.

Nigel Heather07/08/2019 10:23:40
242 forum posts
7 photos

I don't see why everyone is so worried about drones. There have been very few (maybe none) verified drone reports that have caused near misses or airport shutdowns.

And yet over the last few months failures in the NATS and airport IT systems have caused numerous disruptions and flight cancellations.

Maybe the CAA would be better off spending the money earmarked for this silly registration systems to make the ATC systems more robust.

You don't need drones to bring an airport or flights to a halt, NATS or BA are more than capable of managing that unaided.

Cheers,

Nigel

cymaz07/08/2019 10:25:29
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Or even a baggage handlers strike....

John Bisset07/08/2019 10:54:04
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Posted by Jason-I on 06/08/2019 18:50:25:

So, if our normal use and enjoyment of the land is flying model aircraft to 400ft, then surely we can claim this as our airspace.

That is a most interesting thought, Jason. I fly almost exclusively on private land, by arrangement with the owners. It is very specifically not open to the general public for other reasons, so that argument may be useful.

John B

Don Fry07/08/2019 11:05:21
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Not a barrister, but normal use is wot normal people use it for. That's a ball flying through the air. Our use would be an unusual use, however much it is normal to us.

Peter Christy07/08/2019 11:40:20
1831 forum posts

A question for Jeremy: All my control-line experience is on models of 3.5cc or less, using a maximum of 50ft lines. What is the current maximum line length in current use? (I assume it would be for aerobatics?)

--

Pete

Peter Robinson 907/08/2019 11:42:11
28 forum posts
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Hi

Just a quick question it states The CAA will be launching an awareness-raising campaign to ensure that new and existing operators and remote pilots of small unmanned aircraft (SUAs) are aware of the requirement to register and take a competency test by 30 November 2019."

what happens to new people who want to take up flying from december onwards, why is there a cut-off date. I would of thought registering would be open all the time. Have I got this wrong?

Peter

Former Member07/08/2019 12:19:11
47 forum posts

[This posting has been removed]

Peter Robinson 907/08/2019 12:50:59
28 forum posts
2 photos

Hi Jeremy

ok thanks, just seems stupid to have a cut-off date. One more question, if you just build models for the pleasure and do not fly them do you still need to register, I am sure there will be a few modellers who do not fly but love building.

Peter

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