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Interesting reply from email to Richard Moriarty, CAA

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Alan Gorham_07/08/2019 13:01:59
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It's not a cut-off date, it's the date by which you have to register in order to comply with the law.

The registration scheme is to register owners and operators of UAS (which includes our flying models). If you don't build models to fly then you aren't building UAS so registration is a moot point.

Peter Robinson 907/08/2019 13:16:03
28 forum posts
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Hi Alan

Ok, Hmmm at what point are you breaking the law, for instance if you take a model upto the field but do not fly the model just to show the club but it is equipped to fly are you breaking the regulations, when the model becomes airbourne you need to register to be legal. Or is the case you have built a RTF uas so need to register. Just trying to figure out at what point you are breaking the rules. For instance at the club field if everyone is on the ground not flying and the CAA turn up are the rules being broken. I would think that in a court of law no-one has done anything wrong because they are not airbourne is just a collection of models. It might be a stupid question but it went through my mind.

Peter

cymaz07/08/2019 13:16:06
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**LINK**

cymaz07/08/2019 13:19:14
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Posted by Peter Robinson 9 on 07/08/2019 13:16:03:

Hi Alan

Ok, Hmmm at what point are you breaking the law, for instance if you take a model upto the field but do not fly the model just to show the club but it is equipped to fly are you breaking the regulations, when the model becomes airbourne you need to register to be legal. Or is the case you have built a RTF uas so need to register. Just trying to figure out at what point you are breaking the rules. For instance at the club field if everyone is on the ground not flying and the CAA turn up are the rules being broken. I would think that in a court of law no-one has done anything wrong because they are not airbourne is just a collection of models. It might be a stupid question but it went through my mind.

Peter

Just remove the wings and explain that your racing “cars”

Former Member07/08/2019 13:38:23
47 forum posts

[This posting has been removed]

Steve J07/08/2019 13:47:26
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1908 forum posts
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Posted by Jeremy Wilkins on 07/08/2019 13:38:23:

Baroness Vere: Obviously, at some point the police will have to take a little bit of a pragmatic view that, if you have a drone underneath your bed that is covered in dust and is not actually registered, it is probably okay.'

That is one of a number of things that Baroness Vere said in her evidence which does not reflect the law as it is currently written. ANO articles 94D and 94F refer to flying.

Steve

Peter Robinson 907/08/2019 13:50:07
28 forum posts
2 photos

ok

Must not dust any of my models, Looks like from the question Q501 that to fly you have be registered to comply with the rules(thats ok no problem with that) but sitting on the ground stationery un-registerd will this be allowed ? I cant see you been arrested for displaying a model. Maybe we need some more clarification .

Peter

Peter Christy07/08/2019 13:52:58
1823 forum posts

Jeremy: Thanks for that! The line length is around what I expected - maybe a little more. I seem to recall around 65ft being standard back in the days of Merco 35 powered Mercury Crusaders, and the like.

The reason I asked is that if CL models are also required to be registered, what is their likely maximum operating height? With a line length of around 70ft, I guess a 6ft pilot would probably be just under 80ft at the top of a wing-over. (Also bearing in mind that a CL model cannot sustain flight vertically above the pilot!)

Just trying to gather ammunition to send to the Drones Committee!

As far as the point at which an offence is committed, harking back to the CB days, if the radio was connected to both power and aerial, it was assumed that it had been used. That constituted an offence. I would imagine a similar situation would arise here, although I would have thought it would be very difficult to prove an offence had been committed if it wasn't actually seen flying!

--

Pete

Peter Robinson 907/08/2019 14:05:44
28 forum posts
2 photos

Hi peter

Thats the way I look at it, its the actual flight is were the offence or no offence lies. We could end up with a car load of models and been arrested for possession because they are not registered. Hmmm I will wait for more detail which I doubt will not happen and the authorities will not know what to do legally. I also will suspect that the enforcers will be a private company working on behalf of the caa and the police will have nothing to do with it, like traffic wardens and police speed traps all private companies.

John Bisset07/08/2019 14:10:31
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Posted by Don Fry on 07/08/2019 11:05:21:

Not a barrister, but normal use is wot normal people use it for. That's a ball flying through the air. Our use would be an unusual use, however much it is normal to us.

And if the normal was as, say, a private airfield? Not common here, but in France many small airfields have power, gliding, parachuting and model flying all co-existing.

Nigel R07/08/2019 14:13:32
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Can anyone see the police expending any of their resources on us?

The odd 'spot check' on a club site on a Sunday, maybe.

John Bisset07/08/2019 14:14:21
224 forum posts
5 photos

Are traffic wardens and police speed traps run by private companies? When did that happen? That sounds quite appalling.

I rather doubt there would be enough business for a private company to take this on,except in the very busiest of areas.

Peter Robinson 907/08/2019 14:29:52
28 forum posts
2 photos

Hi

I believe down here (kent) they are not police (but still not sure) I believe contracted by the police to operate the cameras, I need to look at it more closely, but what I have seen the vans look like police vans but have on the side something like 'road safety enforcement' and what I have heard run by civillians.

Edited By Peter Robinson 9 on 07/08/2019 14:31:39

Alan Gorham_07/08/2019 14:32:31
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Posted by Peter Robinson 9 on 07/08/2019 14:05:44:

Hi peter

Thats the way I look at it, its the actual flight is were the offence or no offence lies. We could end up with a car load of models and been arrested for possession because they are not registered. Hmmm I will wait for more detail which I doubt will not happen and the authorities will not know what to do legally. I also will suspect that the enforcers will be a private company working on behalf of the caa and the police will have nothing to do with it, like traffic wardens and police speed traps all private companies.

It's pretty clear in law what "operating" a UAS means. In our case the CAA quotes this:

"This means that the aircraft must be able to be clearly seen by the person flying it at all times when it is airborne. By doing this, the person flying the aircraft is able to monitor its flight path and so manoeuvre it clear of anything that it may collide with. While corrective spectacles can be used to look at the aircraft, the use of binoculars, telescopes, or any other image enhancing devices are not permitted.

In simple terms, the aircraft must not be flown out of sight of a human eye."

That is pretty unambiguous in that it mentions the word "flying". If you want to fly, you have to be registered as a remote pilot. None of your other cases apply. If you fly, register. If you never fly, why register?

Edited By Alan Gorham_ on 07/08/2019 14:45:21

Peter Robinson 907/08/2019 14:45:34
28 forum posts
2 photos

Hi

Thank you for the reply Alan thats made it clearer, if you are a owner and do not fly no need to register, but as soon you intend to fly say 6 months after you have finished the model you need to register the model and carry id number. My position I will be unable to fly over winter this year due to commitments so I do not need to worry about registration until I start flying again next year. Is this correct?

Peter Christy07/08/2019 14:52:57
1823 forum posts

That would be my interpretation, certainly. And since December through to April or May rarely produce any decent flying weather, I'm intending to sit tight on registration, and see what happens!

--

Pete

Alan Gorham_07/08/2019 14:55:23
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1287 forum posts
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No you don't register models, you register pilots who will need to take an online test.

If you own and are responsible for models that will be flown then you need to register as an operator.

If you personally will not fly your models until next year then yes you only need to register as an operator and a remote pilot before you fly.

Peter Robinson 907/08/2019 14:58:18
28 forum posts
2 photos

Yes I totally agree see what happens (hold back), chance to build those models you always wished for. But going on past history with the govermant and their computer systems I think they will be a delay in getting the system up and running.

Former Member07/08/2019 15:07:38
47 forum posts

[This posting has been removed]

Cuban807/08/2019 15:12:25
2960 forum posts
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I grow increasingly incredulous at this absurd situation. I still can't believe that it'll go though as advertised - might just be wishful thinking on my part.

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