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Piper PA-23 Aztec 250E

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SwaziFlyer02/06/2019 23:52:37
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44 forum posts
28 photos

Good Day everyone. i am going to attempt to scratch build the Piper PA-23 Aztec 250E. This is an aircraft that my Dad owned when i was younger and one of my favorite out of the pipers that he flew. my plan is to build it to scale as possible in terms of the overall look and depending on the finish i can obtain i will try my hand at as may of the smaller scale details as i can. i will be building out of "Depron", i put it in inverted commas as it is actually high density floor insulation that i have cut into 6mm sheets. The Aztec was bought in South Africa and was registered ZS-NLC.

zsnlc_19761128_fact_060_dust_file_int.jpg

The Aircraft was then exported to Swaziland and Registered as 3D-FLY and was then later Exported back to South Africa and put back as ZS-NLC.

mg_8747m_800_copy.jpg

i only have the 3 Views to work of for the design and am not up to scratch on 3D design, as im going to be using Depron hopefully i will have some wiggle room on the shaping.

aztec 3view.jpg

i am planning to do a wing span of about 150cm which will hopefully be big enough to do some basic detailing. I would love any comments and assistance along the way and hope that i haven't bitten off more than i can chew here. that being said i probably have but lets give it a go anyway.

Edited By SwaziFlyer on 02/06/2019 23:54:27

Nigel R03/06/2019 09:20:58
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3113 forum posts
479 photos

looks a nice project Swazi - following

Percy Verance03/06/2019 16:59:38
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8108 forum posts
155 photos

Wasn't there another one of these being built on the forum a while back?

Edited By Percy Verance on 03/06/2019 16:59:58

SwaziFlyer03/06/2019 17:21:19
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44 forum posts
28 photos

Hi Percy. Danny Fenton did a PA 23 Apache. The Apache was the original Pa23 that I think was a 4 seater. It then evolved into Aztec after the PA 23 B or C.

Danny Fenton03/06/2019 18:01:16
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9222 forum posts
4075 photos

Will be good to see how you get on, it should be great in foam. A lot of planking in balsa makes this one a bit of a slog. About at the glassing stage on mine, but projects keep jumping the queue

apache june 2019.jpg

Cheers

Danny

SwaziFlyer03/06/2019 18:11:16
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44 forum posts
28 photos

That's amazing Danny. Hope I can do yours a little bit of justice.

SwaziFlyer04/06/2019 22:08:58
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44 forum posts
28 photos

20190604_225852.jpgSo....... Slightly nervous now. That's a lot bigger than I thought it was going to be. Not sure if I have enough brushless power for this. Seeing the size gives a bit more insight into size of the project Danny took on with the comanch.

Time for some paper tiling and having a look at some foam.

Edited By SwaziFlyer on 04/06/2019 22:10:16

Danny Fenton04/06/2019 22:59:13
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9222 forum posts
4075 photos

Apache!

Yes at 1/6 the span is 74" which is enough, the wings are quite short in proportion to the fus.

If you imagine you can sit 4 Action men in the cockpit of mine, six in yours! You appreciate how big it is.

As you can see I left the wing centre section and nacelles attached to the fus, a mistake I think. Need to be able to remove the wing just so you can move it around to work on the thing! This would also give access to the radio under the cockpit floor.

Scale it down to 1/8 if you are worried. But you will find twin electrics don't need as much power as you would expect, this is propped to around 500 Watts per side. I doubt it will need half that

I have a Seagull Mosquito at 81" and 5 lbs heavier, that has just 500 watts per side and it goes fine

A friend used to say to me, Feel the fear, and do it anyway.......

Cheers

Danny

SwaziFlyer04/06/2019 23:36:01
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44 forum posts
28 photos

Thanks Danny. have planned at about 60". have the plans on the dining room table and the size is growing on me. one of the Differences between the APACHE and the Aztec is that the Aztec has a full moving Elevator. Does anyone know if there are any build on the forum that have one i can look at.

Chris Freeman 305/06/2019 05:50:54
273 forum posts
355 photos

Stunning aircraft, will watch this closely. Danny, please continue with your one as you have been teasing us for too long with it!

Danny Fenton05/06/2019 08:05:10
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9222 forum posts
4075 photos

Will do Chris, i am hoping this Aztec build will inspire me. But my board is always full of other models.

I look forward to seeing updates

I can only suggest you look at how some of the jets hinge their tailplanes, FMS Hawk for example for ideas. I will look in my bible, scale Aircraft by Gordon Whitehead

Cheers

Danny

Edited By Danny Fenton on 05/06/2019 08:06:30

Chris Freeman 305/06/2019 12:03:26
273 forum posts
355 photos

Top Flite used to make a Piper Arrow that had a full flying stab. I am sure that the build maual would be available or even a build blog will have some detail.

SwaziFlyer05/06/2019 22:11:25
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44 forum posts
28 photos

20190605_225716.jpgSo been doing some fiddling. Profile lines are not as perfect as I would have liked. Probably should have redrawn the lines. Have put the formers in square and will sand them into shape. Not perfect but room for improvement.

20190605_225726.jpg

SwaziFlyer15/06/2019 16:46:21
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44 forum posts
28 photos

so.... working out the curves by eye was not working. too much room for error so i have literally gone back to the drawing board. have never done any 3D design so many hours of research and draw two lines and so on.

 

 

silver.jpg

captureframe.jpg

 

Matt

Edited By SwaziFlyer on 15/06/2019 16:46:54

SwaziFlyer22/06/2019 23:48:56
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44 forum posts
28 photos

I knew trying to draw this in 3d was going to be hard but this is crazy. Can't quite work out what approach to use on the fuselage. Have tried making a solid as above then manipulating that. Then tried curves and lofting them. Then tried to manipulate a cuve. Any Rhino gurus out there with any suggestions please. My problem is with the flatish sides and the two different curves top and bottom.

SwaziFlyer23/06/2019 21:10:43
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44 forum posts
28 photos

ok so some progress made. doesnt look like it but lets see where it goes. got a smooth surface now, will add a bit and see if i can fix the boxy shape.

capture233.jpg

SwaziFlyer28/06/2019 21:55:12
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44 forum posts
28 photos

Hi All. making some progress again. doesn't look like it as i was using rough lines but the method i think will give me the results i need. really want to get the lines right on this model hence the effort im putting into the Rhino design. fuselage looks simple at a glance but when you take a step back there are some complicated line changes on the roof to the sides.

neww.jpg

SwaziFlyer01/10/2019 21:49:48
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44 forum posts
28 photos

Hi Everyone. Or anyone who is following. I haven't given up on this build but have been doing some work on my 3d designs. Have switched to fusion 360 and am getting there slowly its like learning to walk over again. Cad programs are awesome for own design but super tricky when trying to replicate something exactly. Especially as I only have a 3 view to work from and pictures, dint have any reference to formers. When I get it right I will start posting again. When I started mocking up the foam I realised I was not going to do it any justice without some sort of plan.

Matt

Piers Bowlan02/10/2019 06:56:13
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1893 forum posts
49 photos

Impressive stuff Matt, I have tried using Rhino but I found it very difficult, perhaps I should have persevered.

Have you slimmed down your fuselage or is that just one half?

I looked at building a Aerostar 600 once and printed out some three views but the fuselage looked huge in relation to the wings. I thought it would end up rather heavy and draggy for my intended power set so I abandoned it. I hadn't considered building it in depron.

I also drew up a cartoon 'scale' version with a somewhat slimmed fuselage but it is still pending...

Following with interest. yes

SwaziFlyer02/10/2019 08:11:48
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44 forum posts
28 photos

Thanks Piers. Yes the ones above are half of the fuselage. My main struggle at the moment is the the transition between the nose and the fuselage over the windshield area. As I said have moved to fusion360 and am getting cleaner lines now so will hopefully have something to show soon. It's all eyeballing the shape at the moment.

The Aerostar is a lovely aircraft. I also went with depron as I don't have access to big power plants and batteries but I will definitely be doing some balsa reinforcement and stiffening on it.

If anyone has any fusion tips or pics of how they lofted a fuselage it would be a great help. Not much on the net for planes been watching all the boat hull vids I can find.

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