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ASP etc gone

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Cuban824/06/2019 17:10:52
2714 forum posts
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Typical flying day yesterday at my club - IIRC, a couple of turbine models, half a dozen IC glow, just the one petrol model this time...usually three or four, half a dozen smallish electrics including two very fast models and two autogyros for which electric is perfect. I think we're fairly typical where a mixture of power is permitted.

David Davis24/06/2019 17:33:01
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Posted by kc on 24/06/2019 16:38:40:

I

Just how many engines have we all got that are in working order and now currently ( .....pun intended ...) unused? my score is 12! .... I must sell those OS46 AX & FX at least!

For anybody who is worried about lack of engines in future I suggest asking your clubmates if they have a good engine for sale BEFORE the news about SC etc is generally known.

You're just a lightweight kc. I have 30 in running order and a further seven in models.

J D 824/06/2019 18:17:54
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Go diesel, P A W have several sizes available from 1/2 to 10cc.wink

Percy Verance24/06/2019 18:19:15
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8108 forum posts
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Got none left. Sold 'em all 3 years ago while they were still worth sensible money........

ASP/SC/Magnum disappearing has produced something of a quandry. Prospective buyers are unlikely to opt for OS given their rather high pricing. Some will, I think, look towards electric.....

It is certainly an opportunity for Jon at Laser Engines, if he can convince his boss.........

Edited By Percy Verance on 24/06/2019 18:27:26

kevin b24/06/2019 18:43:49
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1661 forum posts
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Unfortunately (as most of us already know) Jon is not in the "budget" engine department. Quality costs !

The problem in my opinion was that they were victims of their own success. Producing reliable, good quality engines in high volumes at a low price. Eventually that market had to become saturated as it is of a reasonably fixed size.

The question is how much do OS outsource to the same suppliers ? Is there a potential "knock on" effect to other manufacturers of small engines ? Also, this is likely to have an effect on Just Engines as well. Will they be able to obtain another range to replace it ?

Time for Alex to put on his smock and wind up the "winky, wonky machine", methinks.

Edited By kevin b on 24/06/2019 18:51:52

Percy Verance24/06/2019 19:06:00
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8108 forum posts
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No Kevin, certainy not in the budget department but a whole heap less costly than OS or Saito......... Plus of course there's the spares situaton. The price of Saito spares can be heart stopping..........

Laser and PAW need to take advantage of this opening if they're able to......... Now might be a good time for PAW to consider the glow market? I may be wrong, but I think they once produced glow motors before. Anyone confirm?

Maybe Just Engines are regretting giving up the MVVS agency. Really excellent Czech produced engines, having been in production almost as long as OS. Popular at one time with control line team race/speed flyers. Even Hanno Prettner used MVVS at one time. The two MVVS's I had - a .28 and a .91 - were solid, reliable and (very) powerful engines. Easily as good as any OS...... the .91 was particularly impressive. It swung an APC 15x7 really well.......as I'm sure Bob Cotsford could confirm. Bob bought the .91 from me, complete with it's *Prettner* carb......

 

 

 

 

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 24/06/2019 19:27:43

Engine Doctor24/06/2019 19:12:42
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2298 forum posts
27 photos
Posted by Percy Verance on 24/06/2019 19:06:00:

Laser and PAW need to take advantage of this opening if they're able to......... Now might be a good time for PAW to consider the glow market?

Edited By Percy Verance on 24/06/2019 19:07:10

Here here and if PAW could include a decent silencer with the engine ,not an expensive add on it would help preserve our club sites.

Don Fry24/06/2019 19:18:19
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3920 forum posts
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KC, the answer to that is, Laser reckon one of theirs, cared for, not destroyed on a rock, will do a thousand hours. That's 5000 flights.

I accept that I oversimplify. But I also say, you will die first. For Laser read any first make manufacturer. For the likes of ASP, reduce longevity by a factor of what you want, but I reckon you will break it, before you wear it out.

and then the world will be inhabited by persons without the ability to twiddle two needles.

And constantly worried if the thing will spring into action

So says petrolhead, slightly afraid of leccy instations.

Don Fry24/06/2019 19:40:16
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3920 forum posts
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But, Neil 67, greetings, did Just Engines say ASP are now no more, or the old factory is now no more. Pending a move to new premises. Because, Just Engines website has not been updated to the loss of the manufacturer.

Edited By Don Fry on 24/06/2019 19:44:53

David Davis24/06/2019 19:50:26
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3399 forum posts
598 photos

I know that Jonathan has enough on his plate dealing with current orders for single cylinder glows while trying to develop the petrol engines, but I see that Steve Webb is quoting £229 for an OS 56 Alpha and £176 for the Saito 40. For £220 you can buy a new Laser 70. If Laser were to produce a 40-52 sized four-stroke for about £200, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.laugh

Percy Verance24/06/2019 19:58:02
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8108 forum posts
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The thing is though David, Jon might probably say it's rather pointless as the .70 uses the same sized crankcase as did the old Laser .50 .............

Edited By Percy Verance on 24/06/2019 19:58:29

David Davis24/06/2019 20:06:48
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3399 forum posts
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So too heavy to be competitive?

Perhaps I should just accept that the ranks of us who like the sound and the smell of a well set-up glow engine are are getting pretty thin and that there's a declining market for the engines we love. crying

kevin b24/06/2019 20:12:29
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1661 forum posts
134 photos

It would be interesting to know what sort of volume Laser produce in a year and whether the market would justify additional expense in tooling, wages etc, to increase production or range.

Personally I doubt it. I don't know about Saito (another family run firm ?), but if the like of OS had to rely on volume engine sales, then they would probably be in trouble now and would have to diversify. Maybe electric motors ? thinking

Jon - Laser Engines24/06/2019 20:16:36
4794 forum posts
179 photos

The only way a 50 would be cost effective for us is if it went in at the same £220 price point as the current 70. All other engines would then move up a price bracket. Its the only way it would be viable, but as has been said already it would be the same physical size as the 70. That calls for a redesign to make the engine more compact and to be honest that isnt going to happen.

I mentioned the news to the boss earlier and he said 'oh thats good'. I asked why, and he said it would be good for our sales. I commented that it would only be good for our sales if we could build the 10000 engines a year needed to satisfy the global market. I nearly passed out when he suggested we would get another staff member to help. Perhaps there is light at the end of the tunnel?

In the meanwhile all i can do is produce what i can.

As for engines....i think i have 12 in airworthy models and a stupid number, more than 30 im sure, spares hidden under the bed. I should probably seek help but i have to spend money on something and engines are cheaper than drugs and not as bad for you.

Many of that number are diesels of one type or another. I have a bunch of Enya's including an 80 with all its original stuff in its original box. Not many OS's, 3 or 4 (i forget) saito 45's, a magnum 240v twin..a bunch of stuff. 

Edited By Jon - Laser Engines on 24/06/2019 20:20:54

Percy Verance24/06/2019 20:35:11
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8108 forum posts
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Kevin

I'm fairly sure the OS labelled electric motors are produced by another company. MVVS produce their own range of electric motors. And rather good they are too.....

will -024/06/2019 20:51:58
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556 forum posts
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Well it seems there's nothing for it I will have to reconcile to having to find an alternate power source.

With this in mind I've spent the evening trial fitting a Saito to this spitfire

dsc_0065.jpg

dsc_0066.jpg

I'm not sure where I'm going to put the boiler just yet.

As to how many embarrassed

Edited By will -0 on 24/06/2019 20:52:44

Don Fry24/06/2019 21:05:32
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3920 forum posts
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Posted by Don Fry on 24/06/2019 19:40:16:

But, Neil 67, greetings, did Just Engines say ASP are now no more, or the old factory is now no more. Pending a move to new premises. Because, Just Engines website has not been updated to the loss of the manufacturer.

Edited By Don Fry on 24/06/2019 19:44:53

Neil, are you there.

Edited By Don Fry on 24/06/2019 21:06:04

Neil6724/06/2019 21:48:04
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186 forum posts
3 photos

Hi Don,

I do hope I haven't started a hare running. Sorry for delay in replying, on a birthday weekend at a posh hotel, courtsey of my family.

I smacked an ASP 40 last week and phoned looking for a new bracket for the rear needle valve assembly, it bolts on to the backplate. I was clearly told that they had just sold the last of their stock on Friday. I asked when will they be restocked only to be told it's not going to happen. So has there been a delay in the new factory opening I asked. The answer I received was that it had closed and the story about moving factory was a face saving exercise. Consequently Just Engines were in talks with alternatives engine manufacturers. I was told, as I suspected, that I should just move needle to front where there is a blanking screw etc.. Enquired about SC Engines, allegedly manufactured in same factory, and told they have gone as well. Although I have used Just Engines in the past this issue has not been handled well. Their site shows messages such as as out of stock but arriving soon, for over six months. I ordered an engine last November for delivery in January. Still waiting. So it appears that the failure isreal. But somebody else please phone Just Engines to check! Finally, I was told to try Weston Models for sparers. Tried but unsuccessfull, offered West engine.

Does anybody have a spare bracket?

Neil

Peter Christy24/06/2019 22:35:47
1552 forum posts

Whilst 2-stroke glow engines seem to be in decline in Europe, they are still being manufactured in the USA:

Mecoa

Mostly K&B - at one time a very respected brand! But they are also advertising HB and Webra engines and spares, along with loads of other useful stuff.

I've no idea if they are manufacturing, or just selling off old stock, but the site gives the impression that at least some brands are still in production.

An opportunity for an enterprising importer, perhaps?

--

Pete

kevin b24/06/2019 22:49:50
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1661 forum posts
134 photos
Posted by will -0 on 24/06/2019 20:51:58:

Well it seems there's nothing for it I will have to reconcile to having to find an alternate power source.

With this in mind I've spent the evening trial fitting a Saito to this spitfire

I'm not sure where I'm going to put the boiler just yet.

As to how many embarrassed

Edited By will -0 on 24/06/2019 20:52:44

You may have to check and see if the BMFA will cover it on their insurance. Have you seen the prices steam enthusiasts have to pay for insurance these days !

Hmm a Spitfire with a chimney. You might have to make it a biplane to help lift the weight. wink 2

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