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ASP etc gone

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Percy Verance25/06/2019 19:52:37
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Not for me it won't............ I use a 13amp socket.

And yes, I think OS or Saito might be next. Look after the engines you have guys....................

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 25/06/2019 20:07:03

Jon - Laser Engines25/06/2019 20:05:50
4765 forum posts
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Fuel will never be a problem as methanol is available and so is oil. Nitro could be an issue but not the other two. A customer of mine is also working on running his engines on bio ethanol so that could be an option in the future.

The final nail for glow engines will be when noone makes glow plugs any more but i think we are a fair way off of that.

As for loosing OS or saito i dont know. OS are much bigger than any of the other manufacturers and so have higher overheads. If they have any sense they will downsize instead of going bust but who know. Saito i think employ about 15 people but dont hold me to it.

OS do have more diverse range though with large live steam trains etc as well as the engine side. I am not sure what else they do but i know it is more than just the engines.

paul coleman 125/06/2019 20:10:06
117 forum posts

weigh em all in lads,it will all be electric soon hahahaha.

Percy Verance25/06/2019 20:12:43
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OS also manufacture model steam engines plus other stuff too Jon. I don't think we'll be losing them yet, but in five years time the story may be different........ I think Saito also used to manufacture small steam plant etc. They also produced two stroke engines for a limited period way back when. I spotted one being flown at an OW Vintage weekend about 15 or 20 years back......

Jon, you are fortunate in that although you produce model glow engines, as do others, yours occupy their own niche in the market and have a strong and very loyal following worldwide. Plus you can obviously sell every engine you build........ it's a healthy position to be in.

OS's tumbling engine sales seems to have brought about some savings for glow plug buyers. An OS No 8 is less than £4 at Airtek Hobbies.........grab 'em quick.

P.S. Paul, it is with me already........

 

 

 

 

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 25/06/2019 20:23:26

Don Fry25/06/2019 21:42:35
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John, don't worry about nitromethane. It's an important feedstock for all sorts. We consume a faction of 1 % of what they produce. Try buying it on line. You will be offered minimum quantities of xxxxxxx kg.

will -025/06/2019 23:17:36
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Posted by David Davis on 24/06/2019 15:49:44:

Shame. Anybody got a 52 sized four-stroke they want to sell?

**LINK**

Tom Sharp 226/06/2019 00:34:42
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OS is part of the Futaba Corporation who build electrical and electronic systems for many car and aircraft companies. Toyota being a major customer.

So I would think that OS would be comparatively safe.

Tony Richardson26/06/2019 02:47:02
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That's sad to hear, I have never owned an ASP/SC engine but I do have a Thunder Tiger 91 four stroke and have to say it is a very powerfull engine but on the heavy side.

Like a lot of other people I rather enjoy the sound and smell of a glow engine but having lived on the Island for a few years now glow fuel is getting harder to obtain and is becoming increasingly more expensive. With that in mind I have made the decision to go electric with my smaller models - up to 4s power only - and convert my larger models to gas (petrol) Saito make a lovely little FG11 .62ci -60 size- 4 stroke that is lighter than my OS52 4 stroke and produces more power, cost here is $480 Canadian and the FG21 - 1.26 ci basically a 120 size engine is $610 Canadian, if the exchange rate hasn't changed pound sterling would be about half that, not sure how that would work for you guys but if anybody is over here on holidays it may be worth a look, better yet Laser will step up and fill that niche.

Tony

Nigel R26/06/2019 06:32:46
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Laser are there or thereabouts with the 30cc petrol. I can easily see the range being expanded downward in size a bit. It's be a real shame if Jon can't get the vee twins on petrol and back in their shop.

Percy Verance26/06/2019 06:33:23
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Small model petrol engines don't seem to cut it here in the UK Tony. Several makers have marketed smaller petrol engines and have had limited success. About 20cc seems to be the recognised minimum starting point for gassers here Tony. Laser are soon to offer a 30cc petrol four stroke. There are a number already *out there* being trialled/proven by flyers. As I understand it there are a couple of minor tweaks to sort, then it should go on general sale. The only minor issue being limited production runs. Lasers are a hand built product, and production output can be limited. It isn't an issue for most customers as they understand how the Laser factory operates. They're usually more than happy to wait for their engine to be built because most buyers are repeat customers and they're fully aware they are getting a superior product.

Edited By Percy Verance on 26/06/2019 06:35:17

Percy Verance26/06/2019 06:51:46
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I just noted the J. Perkins site are still listing SC engines, and no notice of being out of stock or ceasing production etc.....

SC 1.80fs @ £379.99 Jeez........secret I'll take a Laser every time thanks........

The ASP/SC story started well enough ( although it took them 5+ years to go from totally abysmal to slightly inferior). Obviously the manufacturing costs were well down on the other makers, but as we all know, even the poorest folk won't work for next to nothing forever......and so it was. They're probably all making phones now for HooHah or whatever they're called......

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 26/06/2019 06:58:49

David Davis26/06/2019 07:05:15
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Just a couple of lines about two-strokes.

I keep a couple to use in traditional patternships, a Dave Smith job, an Aerostar I think, awaits restoration, but I also do a fair bit of instructing and use two-strokes in ARTF trainers. In many ways they are more convenient than electric powered trainers. Fuel up, start up, fly, land, repeat!

My favourite ARTF trainer is the Seagull Boomerang which, powered with an Enya 50, was a very fine model to fly. However, I failed to take back control quickly enough one day and the model smashed itself to bits in a builder's yard. I have toyed with the idea of buying another one and fitting a Laser to it but I am not prepared to risk such a fine engine in the clumsy mitts of a beginner. Crashing it with the Enya installed was bad enough and something seems to to have come loose inside the engine but I've been too busy to investigate.

Maybe I'll fit an electric motor next time. I don't mind wrecking one of those! devil

Tony Richardson26/06/2019 11:24:58
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I agree Percy the larger gas engines are more popular than the smaller ones - i'm waiting for Jon to get the 180 gasser into production - I have an almost 1/4 scale Se5A that begs for that engine.

As Jon says methanol and oil are readily available it is the nitro methane that is hard to come by even here, the events of 9-11 saw restrictions imposed that make it more difficult to obtain. Luckily I have a fair supply of fuel for the glow engines I still run and the big Super Tigre's will run without any nitro quite well once warm, so as you stated look after your engines guys, rememer though there is a lot of truth in the old saying "you get what you pay for" so maybe we will have to be content with fewer engines/models but feel safe in the knowledge we have purchased a quality product that will serve us well for a good many years.

Edited By Tony Richardson on 26/06/2019 11:25:39

Peter Christy26/06/2019 12:05:40
1517 forum posts

Most European manufactured glow engines run quite happily on "straight" glow fuel - no nitro at all! Super-Tigres in particular were specifically intended to run on straight. My cross-flow Webras and HBs also run very happily on straight.

Even some Japanese or other Far Eastern engines also run best on straight. I had an AirSupply 40 that ran like a turbine on straight, but got very hot and spitty on even a trace of nitro! Ditto a GMS 25.

Interestingly, my ASP 30 4-stroke is just as happy on straight as on the recommended 5% nitro.

So while nitro may work in engines designed for it, a lot of engines not only don't need it, but run much better without it! They also seem to last longer, presumably due to less nitric acid in the residue!

--

Pete

 

Edited By Peter Christy on 26/06/2019 12:06:09

Don Fry26/06/2019 12:13:21
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There is a difference between nitromethane getting harder to get in it's pure form, because in its pure form is a very good explosive precursor, hence in these difficulties times sold to licence holders only. But it will continue to be used as a major feedstock, with uses many and varied. Difficult to make though. Not many plants in Europe, three or four from memory. Big plants though.

Nigel R26/06/2019 12:23:31
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The Evolution engine range, are they still made? Were they another Sanye like ASP/SC?

Jon - Laser Engines26/06/2019 12:30:16
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Posted by Nigel R on 26/06/2019 12:23:31:

The Evolution engine range, are they still made? Were they another Sanye like ASP/SC?

 

Sanye again i believe. As were RCV but i think Westons have been after a new manufacturer for those for a while.

 

On the no nitro thing, many engines can run better and more reliably on straight as they run slightly hotter which helps keep the glowplug alight. I ran ASP 52 2s engines on straight for a quite a while and they were perfectly happy with it. 

Edited By Jon - Laser Engines on 26/06/2019 12:31:27

kc26/06/2019 13:36:14
5954 forum posts
168 photos

Getting fuel delivered will probably be the main problem in future.

As for glow plugs I am sure I read that they were, at one time, made by hand by someone in Britain in a small maybe one man business. if the demand exists it shouldn't be a problem -getting the material for them ( is it platinum? ) might be the snag.

Edited By kc on 26/06/2019 13:44:19

Steve J26/06/2019 14:09:13
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Posted by Nigel R on 26/06/2019 12:23:31:

The Evolution engine range, are they still made?

Evolution are a Horizon Hobby's brand. Going by the Horizon website, it doesn't look like they are making very much at the moment.

Steve

Edited By Steve J on 26/06/2019 14:26:00

Peter Christy26/06/2019 15:47:27
1517 forum posts
Posted by kc on 26/06/2019 13:36:14:As for glow plugs I am sure I read that they were, at one time, made by hand by someone in Britain in a small maybe one man business. if the demand exists it shouldn't be a problem -getting the material for them ( is it platinum? ) might be the snag.

Edited By kc on 26/06/2019 13:44:19

Which raises another interesting point! Most pre-Schnuerle engines (again, SuperTigres, Webra Blackheads, HB, etc) were intended to run on long reach plugs. Whilst they will run on short reach plugs (OS.8, etc) this introduces three potential problems: Firstly, the compression is slightly reduced, secondly the plug element is recessed from the combustion chamber, and finally the exposed threads will slowly gum up with combustion debris, making it difficult to insert the correct plug in future!

Luckily, most 4-st plugs are long reach, and I've found that the ASP 4-st plugs work perfectly in my SuperTigres....

--

Pete

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