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Newbie with some starter trainer plane balsa IC questions please.

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Doc Marten13/07/2019 19:16:53
385 forum posts
4 photos

I reckon you'll outgrow the 4 channel Tx pretty quickly once you go solo so I'd rather spend the extra and prepare myself for that, preferring to save a few quid elsewhere, the walwarts can be picked up used on eBay for about £12 and that's where I'd rather save the money at this stage, that'll get you a genuine, used Futaba charger for 4.8v Rx pack and a 9.6v Tx pack for both NiCad and NiMH, if you search the forum you'll see dozens of pages dedicated to charging and the questions asked when using a charger, have a read and think about what would suit better.

Edited By Doc Marten on 13/07/2019 19:20:29

Don Fry13/07/2019 19:44:34
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4117 forum posts
48 photos

Sorry, reality check.

You have a basic battery, get a basic charger. In days to come, you might need better, but the cheap basic charger is still is of use.

A basic transmitter will do you. Now tell me, when you know enough to make a decision, can you say the one you selected is the operating system for you, long term.

You are getting overheated. Get it up, get it back, in one piece. The last sentence is the important bit. Doing it twice is the second dream.

Nothing in a trainer is anything other than the kit needed for the trainer. That is reality.

Returning to bikes, what kit has a moped owner got, that you use.

David Davis14/07/2019 06:54:45
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3463 forum posts
621 photos

You could always keep your basic transmitter as a slave transmitter for when you become an instructor yourself!

Piers Bowlan14/07/2019 09:58:43
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1905 forum posts
50 photos

One argument is to buy the best you can reasonably afford. It is not just about the number of channels or necessarly about the number of features available as, if you are anything like me, you will only use a small proportion of what your Tx can do. However, some of the more expensive Txs have a better build quality, a larger LCD backlit screen, LiFe battery, smoother gimbals etc. If you feel this would give you a better user experience - and you are prepared to pay for it, then why not, even if it is your first radio?

Don is also right, get a basic (branded) radio for £100 and flog it after a season or two for £50 on eBay. Not a big hit, and it gives you time to assess what is best for you longer term. You may even find that you like your basic radio as it does all you want. Horses for courses.

Edited By Piers Bowlan on 14/07/2019 10:05:16

Dai Fledermaus14/07/2019 14:25:04
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1033 forum posts
52 photos

Make, or buy if you have to, a shooting board. normally used with a plane, I find a Permagrit Block just as effective.

It's brilliant for squaring up any cut ends of ply or balsa sheet or strip.

As I'm left handed I made mine, a simple job and well worth the little effort involved.

dscf6009.jpg

Steve Hargreaves - Moderator14/07/2019 15:25:53
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6728 forum posts
191 photos

I think we've missed another opportunity to help you spend even more money here Nu Me....

You'll be needing fuel & starting equipment for your engine.....

Fuel will probably fill another 5 pages but since I thought of it I get first go....wink 2

As you may or may not know model engine fuel consists of methanol, oil & often a small amount of nitromethane....methanol is the main fuel...oil is self explanatory & nitro methane (often abbreviated to nitro...especially if you're American) is used in varying percentages. Higher percentages (up to 30%) are used to boost power but for sport use 5-10% is the norm & it just makes the engine idle & accelerate more smoothly & generally be nicer to handle. Oil, back in the dim & distant past, was castor oil but times have moved on & synthetic oils are much better than castor. So, my advice would be to use a fuel with synthetic oil, about 5-10% nitomethane & (most important) a fuel you can obtain easily. Using different fuels will mean you'll need to slightly tweak the engine each time & this can lead to unreliability. Second bit of advice I would give....once your engine is run in & tuned correctly leave it alone. The number of people I see forever tweaking their mixture needles....it just isn't necessary. You'll also need a fuel pump to get the fuel from your container into the models' tank. Electric (12V) or hand operated versions are available.

Final thought on fuel too....the percentage of oil in them can vary....from around 10% to 20%. I think that the OS instructions will suggest at least 18% oil. Whilst the general consensus amongst many modellers these days is that 18% is a bit high clearly OS will be unlikely to honour the warranty on your engine if you've used less oil & damaged it.

Starting equipment.....you'll need a starter (a 12V motor you apply to the spinner to turn the engine over & start it), a suitable battery (most people use a large-ish lead-acid battery for this although my personal preference is for a LiPo but that's another 5 pages right there) & a battery to make your glow plug glow.

FYI once the engine is running the heat from the combustion & also the catalytic reaction between methanol & the platinum wire of the glow plug will keep the glow plug..er..glowing but to get the engine started you need to heat the plug.

Again there are a few options.

Many use a "glow stick" which is a single re-chargeable Cell that fits to the glow plug. You can also obtain a Power Panel that uses a 12V battery for power & reduces this to 2V for the glow plug. These panels often contain a fuel pump as mentioned above). My own personal preference is for a separate 2V lead acid battery as I find these last better than the glow sticks & provide more "ooomph" to the plug (which can be useful on a cold day or if the engine is a bit flooded).

You might like to consider all of these extra batteries when deciding on which charger to buy.....just a thought...wink 2

Nu Me 114/07/2019 16:38:56
51 forum posts

Hi all, thanks again for all of the input.

Don - No need for a reality check and any overheating is the weather. I do get that I need to step back a little but I would want any family member who rode a moped to wear the safest things affordable. Thanks for reminding me that I have a brake.

David - I can't see that, as nice a thought as it is laugh.

Piers - your first paragraph is where I was at. I have since arranged to meet up with some local club guys this week at their field and will leave any more talk of TX's until after I have spoken to them on modes and buddy boxes etc.

Dai - Thanks for this. I have made and used shooting boards in jobs before. Mind you, it was a few decades ago now.

Steve - Hahahaha, what powers and starts these aircraft seems to be the hardest part so far now. As mentioned above to Piers, I will talk to the local guys this week and that might show me which route to take. (I am not going to mention TX's and batteries again - yet wink.

You mentioned fuels and I do have a question or two on that.

1) do the fuels come premixed or do I have to mix like I would with a 2 stroke bike/mower/chainsaw etc? . Any recommendations please?

2) what would the consumption be on my set up please?

Thanks again for all of the help so far - It's a bit like pandora's box, I can't get the lid back on!!

Steve Hargreaves - Moderator14/07/2019 16:52:13
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"mentioned fuels"....I wrote a book....teeth 2

Yes they do come pre-mixed....most usual to buy by the gallon....there are various suppliers hence the comment to choose something you can buy consistently. Model Technics are probably one of the biggest/most common suppliers...Opti fuel also quite common.

Consumption....I suspect you will have something around an 8oz tank in the model.....this will be good for easily 15 minutes, probably much more at the low-ish throttle setting you'll use in training & this will be plenty. 10 minutes per flight is usually enough as the concentration level needed are quite high & after 10 minutes you'l find your attention wandering. Obviously the more throttle you use the shorter the flight....

Forgot to mention glow plugs as well but I think the OS comes with one (most engines don't) so use whats provided. If not, an OS number 8 plug is a good match for the engine. (as with spark plugs you can buy different "heat ranges" of glow plugs)

Unlike Pandora's box you shouldn't WANT to put the lid back on....wink 2thumbs up

Nu Me 114/07/2019 17:38:34
51 forum posts

Thanks Steve - That is great information. I can get premix and have a couple of brands to look for - keeping to one where possible.

So assuming the tank is 8 fluid ounces and there are 160 fluid ounces in a UK gallon then that would be 20 tank full's (excluding evaporation and spillage). At 15 minutes a tank then that would be around 300 minutes of flying. That is good to know.

I believe the engine I have ordered comes with a 6 glowplug and the recommendation is a 6 to 8. 8mm if that sounds about right?

Denis Watkins14/07/2019 17:41:45
3927 forum posts
61 photos

Current winter summer weather has been 2 gallons per year

Where, a good winter and summer is usually 4 gallons on small motors

What is 6mm to 8mm NM?

Nu Me 114/07/2019 18:10:10
51 forum posts

Thanks Denis. A few gallons a year is reasonable (I guess the more the better....).

I meant that OS say a number 6, 7 or 8 glow plug can be used and the spanner size is 8mm (?) .

Percy Verance14/07/2019 18:21:34
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8108 forum posts
155 photos

No, nothing to do with the spanner size Nu Me. I think those numbers are the heat rating of the individual plug(s). A plug spanner is another tool it could be worth buying Nu Me. A dedicated plug spanner has intentionally short levers, so you can't exert too much force and strip the plug thread in the cylinder head. Using a normal spanner (which probably wouldn't fit anyway) would increase the chances of this happening quite considerably. The plug is recessed quite deeply into the head, so you'd not get a normal spanner onto it.

I think a glow plug spanner is 1/4 inch in size. Do get one Nu Me, it'll then fit any glow plug you might buy. 

 

 

Edited By Percy Verance on 14/07/2019 18:25:48

Nu Me 114/07/2019 19:06:01
51 forum posts

No worries Percy. Sussex Model Centre have the one I need X-OS71521000

Now on my list. Thanks.

Denis Watkins14/07/2019 19:18:29
3927 forum posts
61 photos

Nm, you are mechanically sympathetic, but a chance here for a reminder about plug spanners

If they were like a tyre lever, 2 foot long, then we could put some force on the plug

Our plug spanners have a 2" lever, so just a firm finger twist does the job

Nu Me 115/07/2019 10:45:56
51 forum posts

Morning all.

Denis - should I cancel my order for a 3/4" drive, 900mm long breaker bar? Good point, well made and thanks. I am guessing the heads are ally with a steel thread on the glow plug? I have seen too many stripped threads due to overtightening on bikes - and obviously, the very small scale compounds this. At least new heads are available at £16, most of the stuff I am used to stopped being manufactured in the early 1980's. .

No update from the kit supplier yet to say that it has been dispatched - it does say the engine is on supplier order and they will dispatch everything together. I am looking forward to popping into on of the flying sites tomorrow to meet some of the guys and finalise an instructor and buddy lessons. I had a few emails back and forth with the local club membership guy yesterday. As well as organising tomorrow, and providing one of the instructors don't mind the look of me too much, all I need to do is turn up at the next meeting with some paperwork and some cash and I can join. I joined the BMFA yesterday and paid for membership for the rest of the year - so another thing ticked off.

I am thinking of starting a build thread - warts and all for the Kadett. I would need to dig out one of my workshop cameras to get a few pics along the way.

Thanks all.

Nigel R15/07/2019 10:57:45
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3156 forum posts
479 photos

"I am guessing the heads are ally with a steel thread on the glow plug?"

quite so.

with a copper washer - which should tell you everything about the required torque

I would expect the plug with the AX to be an OS #8.

 

Edited By Nigel R on 15/07/2019 11:00:29

Doc Marten15/07/2019 11:17:03
385 forum posts
4 photos

I like the cut of your jib Nu me wink

Nu Me 115/07/2019 16:57:12
51 forum posts

Nigel - a copper crush washer, so time to be delicate. I think the carb comes with a OS #6.

Doc - thanks thumbs up

Nu Me 119/07/2019 07:49:22
51 forum posts

Well good news last night, I received an email saying my kit and engine was on its way. The postman has been working very hard trying to keep up with all of the smallish deliveries. I still have a lot of bits to get but they are all in the plan.

I popped over to the local club on Tuesday and spent a good hour there chatting to some of the guys. I may have to wait a short while for some tuition as there are a number of people learning at the moment. I have arranged to keep attending the ground in case there is an earlier opportunity.

The club has a number of trainers and mode 2 seems to be the way forward there.

A new thread on a warts and all build will be started this morning in the correct - I hope - section.

Thanks.

Nigel R19/07/2019 10:01:44
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3156 forum posts
479 photos

Good stuff.

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