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Steve J16/09/2019 20:42:13
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Posted by John Bisset on 16/09/2019 20:34:15:

Do we know who promulgated that map?

Altitude Angel are NATS' UTM partner. I assume the data comes from the AIP, NOTAMs and the DfT's strangely named Project Chatham.

Steve

Steve J16/09/2019 21:05:14
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Posted by John Bisset on 16/09/2019 20:34:15:

Small civil field and glider fields have small yellow zones shown, though some sites which are not in use are shown and curious;y one very rarely used heliport location has a large zone than the highly active light aircraft field zones nearby. Curious.

There is a case near me where a GA field has two circles on slightly different centres. I looked in ENR 5.5 and the field does have two entries with slightly different locations .

Steve

John Bisset17/09/2019 11:02:27
174 forum posts

Thanks Steve. Most intriguing - the slightly odd pattern of very precise and strangely arbitrary overlay information suggested several sources; one of the challenges nowadays, especially when dealing with some one else's bureaucracy or data retrieval is determining the provenance and likely accuracy of the data !

(Occasionally I have had to explain to people, especially non-technical managers, politicians and civil servants that data is not of itself valuable. until is developed into reliable information - from which we may be able to gain knowledge. There is a tendency to presume the data gathering is the really important bit & everything else peripheral.)

Steve J17/09/2019 11:14:13
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Posted by John Bisset on 17/09/2019 11:02:27:

Occasionally I have had to explain to people, especially non-technical managers, politicians and civil servants that data is not of itself valuable. until is developed into reliable information - from which we may be able to gain knowledge.

This is why think that the CAA's proposed registration fee is so high. They want the registration fees to pay for the geo-awareness database as well as the registration system and the former is going to be the more expensive of the two.

Steve

Edited By Steve J on 17/09/2019 11:16:51

John Bisset17/09/2019 20:54:09
174 forum posts

What, in the long run, do you think the CAA intend to use the geo-awareness database for? Is it their intention that drone operators will be able to access it ? - that might make sense for commercial drone operators but I can't seethe ordinary user doing so. To ask commercial users to pay for access to that database would be reasonable, and a charge the operators would simply pass on to clients. For ordinary drone users, that would need a change in law surely.

The database is of little or no relevance to the average radio control flier surely, since we are line of sight only. Struggling to see the justification for our paying for it!

Steve J17/09/2019 21:34:04
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Posted by John Bisset on 17/09/2019 20:54:09:

What, in the long run, do you think the CAA intend to use the geo-awareness database for? Is it their intention that drone operators will be able to access it ?

The database is of little or no relevance to the average radio control flier surely, since we are line of sight only. Struggling to see the justification for our paying for it!

We can access it through the website and app.

From SESAR's ATM Drone roadmap (a scary document):

"Pre-tactical geofencing

The service provides the operator with geo-information about predefined restricted areas (prisons, etc.) and available aeronautical information (NOTAM, AIRAC cycle) used during the flight preparation. This service requires the identification of accredited sources and the availability of qualified geo- information related to restricted areas. This service provides information that allows the drone operator to make use of the geofencing capability of the drone."

"Geo-fencing database A continuously updated repository of airspace restrictions must be fully developed and accessible to ensure no-fly zones and other restrictions are respected."

From Baroness Vere's evidence to the Commons enquiry:

Q442 "We have Project Chatham, which is the CAA, NATS and the DFT all working together to create a digital superstructure of relevant information about all unmanned aircraft, relating to airspace and the appropriate restrictions. Once we have that, it will be open source, so app users and developers can take that information. On to that, we need to put unmanned traffic management systems, which again are in development—the CAA is involved—tying into that electronic conspicuity, which will be really important. It is about time we knew what is in our skies, particularly if there is to be more of it, whatever “it” is. Linked to that is a registration system."

I'm sure that the government would say that even if you always fly line of sight in the same place, you should still check for restrictions.

I also struggle to see why recreational flyers should pay more than a nominal amount towards the U-Space foundation services and said so to my MP.

Steve

PeterF18/09/2019 09:30:00
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The CAA consultation site ( **LINK**) is still showing 16th September as the expected date for the response document to be published. Now overdue. Perhaps due to the recent ministerial intervention.

John Bisset18/09/2019 16:42:29
174 forum posts

My word that is a scary document, Steve - thanks for mentioning it. AI had not seen it before. A quick first scan suggests that much of the focus is on much more intrusive future operations than anything we represent, but...

I must read further about the proposed update of VFR general aviation aircraft by around 2027, (Just what we need, another expensive & pointless change just after the 8.33MHz spacing radio shambles & the expensive transponder fitments. Sigh.)

I liked your -

"I'm sure that the government would say that even if you always fly line of sight in the same place, you should still check for restrictions."

True-ish, just as we are always supposed to have checked the Notams before flying fullsize. That said, if flying circuits at known and registered airfields in some quieter parts of the country, that is often 'honoured in the breach', it being expected that any relevant flying activities would be known about, or would require co-ordination if affecting the circuit area.

In any event, I can't see the fliers at my local modelling site checking the database every day for local restrictions. Perhaps we need to suggest that our model flying sites get put on the database too, so that others can avoid us !

Steve J18/09/2019 17:44:30
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1436 forum posts
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Posted by John Bisset on 18/09/2019 16:42:29:

Perhaps we need to suggest that our model flying sites get put on the database too, so that others can avoid us !

Only the 13 model flying sites with approval to fly 7+kg over 400ft are currently in the UK AIP. The French AIP lists a large number of model flying sites. The UK government had notification of flights in the July '18 DfT consultation. They dropped it in the response, but I am sure that it will be back.

Steve

Chris Berry18/09/2019 20:51:34
130 forum posts
1 photos

Question.

As parliament is now suspended, presumably the Select committees, in particular the Science and Tech committee is also suspended?

If so, their report will be delayed and if there is an election, maybe the report will be significantly delayed?

Martin_K29/09/2019 10:18:40
53 forum posts

The CAA Drone and model aircraft registration and education service web page has been changed. The text;

Go-live date: 1 October 2019

has been removed.

Edited By Martin_K on 29/09/2019 10:20:55

Chris Berry29/09/2019 11:31:17
130 forum posts
1 photos

Yep, they still have 30th November as implementation date but 1st October is no longer there, in fact, there is no mention of October at all.

I wonder if 30th November will some how be changed to a later date, although that may require some work that may need parliamentary time.

Chris Berry29/09/2019 11:31:38
130 forum posts
1 photos

Any sign of the select committee report yet?

Steve J29/09/2019 12:39:37
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1436 forum posts
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Posted by Chris Berry on 29/09/2019 11:31:38:

Any sign of the select committee report yet?

On the 23rd they said "we hope to release our findings later this year".

The change to the CAA website could mean various things. My guess is that it's been pushed back because everybody is busy with Thomas Cook stuff.

Steve

Gordon Whitehead 129/09/2019 14:12:07
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320 forum posts
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Posted by Martin_K on 29/09/2019 10:18:40:

The CAA Drone and model aircraft registration and education service web page has been changed.

Has the £16.50 registration fee been abandoned? If not, where is it mentioned? I can find no link to a fee from that page.

Martin_K29/09/2019 14:23:48
53 forum posts

There has been no change to the document regarding fees. See under "Operator ID".

Fee: Currently under consultation

Gordon Whitehead 129/09/2019 17:20:56
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320 forum posts
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Thanks Martin. I skimmed the page too quickly.

Some modellers have said that they plan on not registering until next year, presumably with their models in storage somewhere. If the models are in storage then the owner will be responsible for them and their safe keeping. I wonder if that will mean that the owner should register from day one as being responsible for the models per the first line of the Operator ID section, even if they're not to be flown for a long while.

Robert Parker29/09/2019 17:35:01
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904 forum posts
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Can anyone tell me how I go about the registration process. I have tried the "Drone and model aircraft registration and education service" page but i cannot get anywhere with it and tried several attempts on the search bar.

Thought I'd give the test a go and start the registration process.

Regards

Robert

Steve J29/09/2019 17:43:56
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1436 forum posts
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Posted by Robert Parker on 29/09/2019 17:35:01:

Can anyone tell me how I go about the registration process.

The system is not live. It may be live on Tuesday or it may not.

Unless there is a change in the ANO, it has to be live by the end of November.

Steve

Edited By Steve J on 29/09/2019 17:44:16

Robert Parker29/09/2019 17:47:46
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Thank you Steve, a bit like Brexit then.

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