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Steve J24/08/2019 20:41:15
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Posted by GONZO on 24/08/2019 19:51:44:

The national organisation and clubs are not going to act as unpaid police for DRES and the BMFA have stated so.

That's the way that I read it as well. The associations intend to have as little as possible to do with the registration and testing system.

Steve

Steve J24/08/2019 20:45:06
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Posted by Chris Berry on 24/08/2019 18:34:02:

Every aircraft will have to display somewhere, (preferably inside) a registration number.

Operator numbers on UAVs will be external and permanent. Which makes things easy for anybody policing the system.

Steve

Chris Berry24/08/2019 21:02:43
110 forum posts
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Steve J, has it been confirmed that the number will have to be external? Underside of the top centre section of my scale biplanes or in the cockpit and in the UC bay of my warbirds and on the fuz under the tail of a sport model or if fitted with counterbalanced control surfaces you put it on the inner face.

If they say it must be readable and therefore a minimum size, then what if the model is smaller than the required numbers but weighs 251g?

The possibilities are endless wink 2

Steve J24/08/2019 21:09:32
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Posted by Chris Berry on 24/08/2019 21:02:43:

has it been confirmed that the number will have to be external?

"There are still ongoing issues to be clarified with the CAA (such as our opposition to carrying external registration markings"

(BMFA article)

Steve

Chris Berry24/08/2019 21:12:17
110 forum posts
1 photos

Yep I saw that. So no real detail yet other than external.

Olive drab warbird, olive drab letters!

 

Maybe there could be a way to get exemption to not display a reg number externally on a non multirota aircraft?? Meet us halfway on that at least? Maybe a question to ask Rob and Andy?

Edited By Chris Berry on 24/08/2019 21:14:09

Steve J24/08/2019 21:20:38
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Posted by Chris Berry on 24/08/2019 21:12:17:

Olive drab warbird, olive drab letters!

That is essentially what I am thinking for a couple of models. Different shades of the same colour so the registration is readable a few meters away, but disappears at greater distances.

Steve

GONZO24/08/2019 21:20:39
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1251 forum posts
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Steve J, yes, that's exactly what I understood from the summary. Of course this may change before the system comes into force.

I cant for the life of me understand this obsession with insurance. It's so cheap for us because we don't have many accidents. In many other walks of life that are much more prone to accidental damage and injury no one bothers. Cycle riding, much mentioned here, causes the death of many riders and pedestrians each year along with damage to vehicles. Does any one have dedicated cycle insurance? Just living as a person you can cause injury and damage to others. Who has insurance for that? An example. One Autumn evening in the dark I was in a hurry to get to a night class. Running along the pavement I glanced back down the road on my side to see if it was clear. I shot into the road from between parked cars to meet a cyclist who I knocked flying across the road to the other gutter. I hadn't seen him as he was in black and his light was low on the front forks thus obscured by the parked cars. I could have killed him if his head had hit the road. How do I insure against that. Things happen in life, some times bad things. You cant metaphorically wrap your life in cotton wool and insure against all eventualities. I've been flying RC models since the mid 70's and had a few third party accidents like a plane hitting me in the right hip(big painful bruise) and badly cut fingers whilst stopping another modellers unrestrained plane to name a few. But, I've not seen much other third party injury or damage to property. All the incidents I suffered I would not even think of claiming against any one. I suppose its my personal attitude, I take part in this activity with others and accept that there are risks involved.

Cuban825/08/2019 08:53:43
2641 forum posts
13 photos

Invisible ink, the stuff used for security marking? World's gone mad so why not? Models to be marked in a specific place (under tailplane say ). If some jobsworth wants to check my model, they can ruddy well get their own UV torch.angry

Mentioned my return to motorcycling, and am reminded of the equally barmy law that saw 16 year olds limited to mopeds back in 1973. Yes, I just got caught by that. To prevent so many 16 year old learners breaking their necks on a 250, some bright spark thought, "I know, we'll slow them down on an underpowered machine that will be a target on the roads and slower than 90% of other traffic".

A stupid law, much as we have now with drones, and one that could have been tweaked to a much more sensible answer. Yes, had my Fizzy at 16..........apparently they're collectors items now, worth north of five grandsurprise

Edited By Cuban8 on 25/08/2019 09:03:38

Steve J27/08/2019 09:41:48
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1374 forum posts
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Posted by GONZO on 24/08/2019 21:20:39:

I cant for the life of me understand this obsession with insurance.

Clever marketing by the BMFA. They offer 'free' club insurance to affiliated clubs. If I am reading the accounts correctly this costs them c. £40/club. They then get membership fees from all the club's flyers. The best bit of this is that the club policy is paid for by the entire membership so people who aren't in clubs are helping to pay for it.

Steve

Tony Packe27/08/2019 14:12:06
4 forum posts

Here's a new take on the registration fiasco. It's been stated that there could be a £1000 for anyone not registering as an owner and paying the £16.50 fee. Just suppose you have stopped flying recently, either due to ill health or some other reason. You used to fly with a club that was affiliated with the BMFA, so by now all your details are with the CAA. You have a garage full of air planes, so where does that leave you in regard to the registration process?

You can hang a firearm on the wall providing it it has been professionally deactivated, but where is the bottom line for a potential airworthy model. What about the antique shops that always have large models hanging from the ceilings complete with engines and ancillaries, not to mention model shops as well. Are all required to pay the £16.50 charge to avoid a fine? A pretty poor state of affairs as an old ex RAF friend used to say.

Tony Packe27/08/2019 14:12:42
4 forum posts

Here's a new take on the registration fiasco. It's been stated that there could be a £1000 for anyone not registering as an owner and paying the £16.50 fee. Just suppose you have stopped flying recently, either due to ill health or some other reason. You used to fly with a club that was affiliated with the BMFA, so by now all your details are with the CAA. You have a garage full of air planes, so where does that leave you in regard to the registration process?

You can hang a firearm on the wall providing it it has been professionally deactivated, but where is the bottom line for a potential airworthy model. What about the antique shops that always have large models hanging from the ceilings complete with engines and ancillaries, not to mention model shops as well. Are all required to pay the £16.50 charge to avoid a fine? A pretty poor state of affairs as an old ex RAF friend used to say.

Nigel R27/08/2019 14:58:24
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2985 forum posts
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You register as an operator, not owner.

The pilot, who may or may not be the same person, also needs to be registered, separately, as a pilot.

Steve J27/08/2019 15:17:02
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1374 forum posts
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Law from the 31st November: ANO articles 94D (operator) and 94F (remote pilot) refer to flying. The operator is somebody who has management of an UA (94G).

Law from 1st July next year: the EU regulation is defines an operator as somebody who operates or intends to operate an UA.

In her evidence to the Commons enquiry Baroness Vere talked about ownership.

The law after the next ANO amendment and the Unmanned Aircraft Bill: ?

Steve

Edited By Steve J on 27/08/2019 15:18:19

Peter Christy27/08/2019 15:51:53
1518 forum posts

The language used by the BMFA in their update (linked to at the start of this thread) makes for some interesting reading: "The Aviation Minister / DfT are still of the firm opinion that all model aircraft flyers (ie those over 18) should register as operators individually, and that it would not be appropriate for the Associations to register on their members' behalf ......" (My bold and italics)

That says to me that there is nothing in the regulation preventing this, just that the DfT never thought of that option, that its not covered in the legalese, and that they are now trying to dissuade associations from following this path. Translation: They cocked it up!

At the Nationals, the BMFA Chairman had a small update to this, which he announced while awarding trophies. He emphasised that nothing is certain yet, that discussions are on-going, but that the new Minister of Transport (the Baroness' boss) has released a significant sum of money to be spent on General Aviation, of which model flying is part. It is just possible that some of this money could be used to offset, either in part or in whole, the cost of registration.

I emphasise again that he stressed that nothing is certain at this point, and that discussions are ongoing. But it gave me at least, some hope that all is not yet lost.

The Minister for Transport probably has his hands full with the HS2 shambles at the moment (more bad news for him today, on that front!), but he has shown himself sympathetic to model flying in the past. I just hope he can bring his influence to bear on this before the deadline......

--

Pete

cymaz27/08/2019 16:29:30
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8587 forum posts
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The powers that be spend 10’s of millions on HS2 and it might get scrapped. The same powers are chasing an old fella for £16.50 so he can fly once in a blue moon or get £1000 fine.

Will the rail franchises be saddle with the cost if HS2 falls apart?

Don Fry27/08/2019 16:38:42
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3841 forum posts
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Don't be daft, Branson is currently doing litigation because the government has the temerity to say he has to fund his rail workers pension fund properly.

BTW, spending on HS2 is already in the billions.

Steve J27/08/2019 17:16:48
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1374 forum posts
41 photos
Posted by Peter Christy on 27/08/2019 15:51:53:

At the Nationals, the BMFA Chairman had a small update to this, which he announced while awarding trophies. He emphasised that nothing is certain yet, that discussions are on-going, but that the new Minister of Transport (the Baroness' boss) has released a significant sum of money to be spent on General Aviation, of which model flying is part. It is just possible that some of this money could be used to offset, either in part or in whole, the cost of registration.

Do you mean the Secretary of State?

As I said in another topic, I think that the government will end up co-funding the registration system (and the other U-Space foundation systems), but I think that they will try 'user pays' first.

Steve

Peter Christy27/08/2019 17:43:58
1518 forum posts

Posted by Steve J on 27/08/2019 17:16:48:

Do you mean the Secretary of State?

Yes, that'll be him! I try to avoid politics and politicians as far as possible, so I'm not familiar with the current state of their respective titles! The last one I remember having anything to do with transport was Marples....!

angry

--

Pete

Steve J27/08/2019 18:20:29
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1374 forum posts
41 photos

PM accelerates towards greener travel with new £300 million investment

"The Future of Flight Challenge is delivered by UK Research and Innovation. Industry will initially focus on smaller aircraft and drones to ensure the suitability of the new technologies before developing them for larger passenger aircraft."

Steve

Erfolg27/08/2019 18:52:41
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11322 forum posts
1122 photos

Reading the tread is most dispiriting in many aspects. From way back, my opinion was, as is,that these changes are the most significant changes as to how we operate. That the NFC was and still is a side show for the majority of members.

I could write much more, yet things are as they are and will become our norm. The requirements seem to change almost daily. Which raises a number of questions as to how things stand today.

1) do I require register in two different rolls. The first as the pilot and the second as the operator? Will take two test if this is the case, at a total charge of £33?

2) Do we know what the twenty questions are. Or are they randomly generated from a data base of questions?

3) Is the date a single specific date when we must have passed the tests and registered or is there a period where it is still legal to fly?

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