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Jason-I21/10/2019 21:00:46
260 forum posts
37 photos

Chris has apologised. Don't think he meant to cause offence. Anyway, I think most of us have a cheeky ARTF or foamy hidden away somewhere.

Edited By Jason-I on 21/10/2019 21:01:15

Dickw21/10/2019 21:34:28
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480 forum posts
76 photos
Posted by Brian Stevenson 1 on 21/10/2019 20:50:34:

So:

BMFA members don't have to register until end January 2020. Good. So if I renew membership on 1st January, as usual, they presumably won't take the fee as I won't have passed the test by then so can't register at that time. What happens when I do take the test?

I notice that the free 'pilot' registration has vanished. .....................................

Edited By Brian Stevenson 1 on 21/10/2019 20:54:11

The free pilot registration has not vanished, it is still there if you don't hold an acceptable alternative such as a BMFA 'A' cert: -

"Anyone flying a drone or unmanned aircraft (including model aircraft) weighing between 250g and 20kg will need to take and pass an online education package. This is free and renewable every three years."

This seems to be completely separate from the £9 registration as an operator which can be either direct with the CAA system or via the BMFA or other 'approved Association' :-

"With permission, the associations will collect the registration fee from members directly……"

"The associations will issue further detailed guidance to their members in due course."

Note the "with permission".

Dick

Jason-I21/10/2019 21:47:52
260 forum posts
37 photos
Posted by Brian Stevenson 1 on 21/10/2019 21:35:57:

Of course they are toys. It's only pomposity causes us to call them anything else. EG being a member of the 'The Society of Model Aeronautical Engineers' when all I was doing was flying a KeilKraft 'Just slide the wing and tail into their slots and throw it' Cutie chuck glider in the back garden.

Funny how easily we can all get excited over our toys too! I've got a garage full of them BTW.

Steve J21/10/2019 22:16:42
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1568 forum posts
47 photos

Anybody else notice that the 'A' cert exemption only lasts until 30th June (at least initially)?

"To allow operators to demonstrate competence if challenged (for example by the police) the CAA will be issuing a formal exemption that can be used alongside existing permissions / achievements and any other relevant documents. This exemption will be in place until 30 June 2020, when new regulations are expected. We will be working with stakeholders in 2020 to put these into place."

Steve

Martin_K21/10/2019 22:27:07
77 forum posts

Yes, I noticed. Nothing about when new arrangements will be announced however, hence me thinking the end of the year will be my own deadline to decide on future modelling plans.

kevin b21/10/2019 22:27:53
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1669 forum posts
134 photos

So, let me get this right.

Anybody with an "A" certificate is ok as long as they pay the fee. Through the BMFA is easiest.

Anybody without an "A" certificate has to pass an online test every 3 years until they get their "A" certificate, but can still pay through the BMFA (subject to new rules next year).

Anybody who fails the online test cannot fly, except on a buddy lead at BMFA registered clubs, but doesn't have to pay the fee.

Unfortunately I have to have this in plain English to pass on to some of our club members.

I will double check this with the BMFA.

Edited By kevin b on 21/10/2019 22:29:37

MattyB21/10/2019 22:28:55
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1959 forum posts
30 photos
Posted by Steve J on 21/10/2019 20:21:06:
Posted by Alan Gorham_ on 21/10/2019 19:51:32:

I'm not quite sure what to make of the yearly fee when IIRC Mr Shapps asked them to look at reducing it below £5 was it?

I have seen it reported elsewhere that Mr Shapps told the CAA to get the fee below £10. I personally was hoping for £5.

Steve

So in short the DfT have pulled that classic manoeuvre beloved of governments worldwide... Offer something extreme, get the us all outraged then water it down to what they intended all along whilst the public accept it as a “success” even though significant rights have been given up. Yes it could have been worse, but this remains a pretty average deal that does not even comply with the recommendations of their own select committee.

I don’t disagree that the BMFA have done as well as they could with what was essentially a busted flush, but mostly we are lucky Mr Shapps came along when he did or it could have been much worse. Now we wait to see if a CAA exemption will be forthcoming to the min distances and uninvolved person rules in category A3, otherwise this success becomes completely academic given ~95% of our sites won’t comply as it stands

cymaz21/10/2019 22:31:05
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8743 forum posts
1190 photos

It could have been a lot worse. £9 I can live with that. Bmfa as the police, fine. They know more about this than any faceless Whitehall Minion.

Free online test every 3 years.....hardly an onerous task.

No minimum age for pilot....won’t deter young upcoming talent

At least Mr Shapps seems to have got the message and the lobbying. He had to be seen to do something with pressure from airlines and airports.

Steve J21/10/2019 22:34:35
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1568 forum posts
47 photos
Posted by kevin b on 21/10/2019 22:27:53:

Anybody who fails the online test cannot fly

You can't fail the test.

Brian Stevenson 121/10/2019 22:43:21
45 forum posts
Posted by Dickw on 21/10/2019 21:34:28:
Posted by Brian Stevenson 1 on 21/10/2019 20:50:34:

So:

BMFA members don't have to register until end January 2020. Good. So if I renew membership on 1st January, as usual, they presumably won't take the fee as I won't have passed the test by then so can't register at that time. What happens when I do take the test?

I notice that the free 'pilot' registration has vanished. .....................................

Edited By Brian Stevenson 1 on 21/10/2019 20:54:11

The free pilot registration has not vanished, it is still there if you don't hold an acceptable alternative such as a BMFA 'A' cert: -

"Anyone flying a drone or unmanned aircraft (including model aircraft) weighing between 250g and 20kg will need to take and pass an online education package. This is free and renewable every three years."

This seems to be completely separate from the £9 registration as an operator which can be either direct with the CAA system or via the BMFA or other 'approved Association' :-

"With permission, the associations will collect the registration fee from members directly……"

"The associations will issue further detailed guidance to their members in due course."

Note the "with permission".

Dick

 

 

The test is free, the registration isn't. And there is NO mention of the previously mentioned free 'Pilot'  registration any longer, only 'Operators' are mentioned. .

The 3 year renewal is an extra cost. I hold full size pilots licence (since 1976) and a driving licence since around 1962). The pilot one NEVER has to be renewed unless you let it lapse by not flying a minimum number of hours every year. Driving licence is only at 70 years old, renewal is free, and there is no test.

So this toy plane one is tougher on both repeating renewal and repeating fee than real planes and cars/motorcycles. Which is dopey.

Edited By Brian Stevenson 1 on 21/10/2019 22:44:22

Steve J21/10/2019 22:48:06
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1568 forum posts
47 photos
Posted by cymaz on 21/10/2019 22:31:05:

At least Mr Shapps seems to have got the message and the lobbying.

Grant Shapps was an ally who wants to reform the CAA long before he became SoS. That is why it is such a stroke of luck that he became SoS.

Steve

john stones 121/10/2019 23:05:54
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10704 forum posts
1480 photos

I have to pay BMFA every year, never made a claim and it used to be £5, I have to pay club fees every year and I don't fly very often, no refunds, I get a year older every year, but it's better than the alternative (most days, depends on the thread). I used to go music festivals, can't afford it now and couldn't handle it anyway, penny arrows used to be a penny. dont know

Brian Stevenson 121/10/2019 23:51:33
45 forum posts
Posted by Steve J on 21/10/2019 22:48:06:
Posted by cymaz on 21/10/2019 22:31:05:

At least Mr Shapps seems to have got the message and the lobbying.

Grant Shapps was an ally who wants to reform the CAA long before he became SoS. That is why it is such a stroke of luck that he became SoS.

Steve

Individually these fees are quite low. But when you consider all the routine stuff you have to pay for it all adds up.

BMFA?: I'm in it because I think it does some good, and I suppose because there is some shared 'common companionable interest' in it. Even though I have zero interest in "I can fly my toy plane better than you can fly your toy plane" competitions so don't use that function. And as a 'country' member I don't even get a vote on anything despite paying the same subscription as everyone else. And the only two letters/emails I ever sent them weren't answered.

But I don't actually NEED the insurance as my house insurance covers model flying for ALL occupants of the house. As do many policies.

And then there is the 'A' test. Despite the BMFA insisting that it is merely 'personal achievement' and was never intended as any kind of licence, many 'Adolf' style clubs insist on it and so does the CAA if you want to avoid the test. (Though why you should want to avoid the CAA test for anything other than 'freedom' opinions is not clear to me.)

So I don't think I shall renew my BMFA membership, despite being in it since long before it changed its 'trading' name from SMAE to BMFA. There are times when one has to make a personal stand on this stuff, even though that stand will go unnoticed.

And re the 'height' concession I can't tell the difference between 400 feet and a 1000 feet when looking straight up and neither can the local plod, who don't even know the size of the object they are looking at until it lands.

Jason-I22/10/2019 08:15:32
260 forum posts
37 photos

Bruce has given the new regs the once over:

 

Edited By Jason-I on 22/10/2019 08:26:04

J D 822/10/2019 08:58:32
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1310 forum posts
78 photos

Agree, the document has more holes than a Swiss cheese.

GONZO22/10/2019 09:09:01
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1287 forum posts
14 photos

IMO this is the classic "suck them in then slap on the extras" preceded by the other classic "outrageous demands followed by conceding, in the face of outrage, to near what you actually want". The fee; bound to go up as its only yearly and is well below that which is required to cover costs of scheme. The test; a pointless 'cant fail' for now or the BMFA 'A' until 30th June 2020(?), then what - a precedent has been set of an exam pass before flying and its easy to make more difficult and charge. There is another exam previously detailed due to come in on this date that has a fee and is to be taken at test centers. Its easy to tighten the noose and strangle model flying to death in the future.

I don't want to get political but have you noticed how our basis of law has changed over the decades since we've been in the EU. It used to be, in this country, that unless the law stated you could not do some thing then you were free to act. Now we seem to have gone to the continental way of unless there is a law saying you can do something you cant act.

Ron Gray22/10/2019 09:27:53
1480 forum posts
363 photos
Posted by GONZO on 22/10/2019 09:09:

I don't want to get political but have you noticed how our basis of law has changed over the decades since we've been in the EU. It used to be, in this country, that unless the law stated you could not do some thing then you were free to act. Now we seem to have gone to the continental way of unless there is a law saying you can do something you cant act.

Nothing to do with the EU, it’s the way of the world!

GONZO22/10/2019 09:37:47
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1287 forum posts
14 photos

Ron, never used to be in this country. But was the way on the continent.

Cuban822/10/2019 09:41:26
2758 forum posts
13 photos

Ron, we are where we are but interestingly, this new 'deal' that's been agreed for us has many resonances with another 'deal' being squabbled over in another place.laugh

GONZO22/10/2019 09:45:10
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1287 forum posts
14 photos

I've been a member of the BMFA and the SMAE before since the mid 70's. I got my 'A' in early 1980. But, if there is no opt out for paying the registration fee I shall leave the BMFA. This will probably mean I'll leave the club as its affiliated. which means I'll leave the hobby as a flying participant and just make and fit out planes that I have and run up my engines at home.

Edited By GONZO on 22/10/2019 09:48:12

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