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Flair Bristol F2B Fighter Biplane

Plans and instructions

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Bruce Seaton18/09/2019 17:44:01
7 forum posts
3 photos

I have been given a part built Bristol F2B Biplane and would like to finish it off, unfortunately some stuff is missing the main being the plans and instructions!! Does anyone out there have them from a previous build of there own that I could purchase copies of as I would very much like to complete it in the future.

Edited By Bruce Seaton on 18/09/2019 18:04:09

Roger Marshall14/11/2019 13:45:18
52 forum posts
77 photos

Hi Bruce

I also have a part built Flair F2B for the future.

A shame nobody has replied to your post, maybe here’s why.

I have the plan set and instructions and can tell you consist of no less than 20 sheets. About 6 of them are A4 size double sided with building advice and parts list, about 14 are A3 size showing layout, part numbers and build instructions, 1 is 4 x A3 size and 1 is 8 x A3 size for building on. So about 30+ A3 size copies.

A4 and A3 copies are OK but getting large whole plans over the copier to get flat useable copies with enough overlap for tiling purposes can be quite a chore, so all in quite a job! Do you have any of the sheet plans at all?

What other bits are missing?? Most of the wood and hardware would be easy enough to source and replace, using templates on the plan, but the inner cabane struts are prebent alloy strips and there’s no template on the plan that I remember of, so hope they are not missing.

How much of the model is already built? It could make a huge difference.

If the fuselage is done the cabane struts should already be fitted, as well as the linkage to operate the elevators.

This is about the stage of build my model’s at, and as this kit I have has been badly robbed I don’t know what problems I’ll come across when resuming the build in the future.

I don’t want to dampen your enthusiasm, just letting you know how it could be.

I suggest you keep this post active, and see if somebody responds. i.e. don’t let it disappear in the forum post catalogue for people to accidentally find like I did.

Best of luck

Roger

will -014/11/2019 14:17:39
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582 forum posts
19 photos

I don't have an F2b part built or otherwise but I do wish I did...

Bruce Seaton14/11/2019 17:38:45
7 forum posts
3 photos

Good evening Roger and thank you for your reply. I was just thinking about the F2B this week as have restarted my build of the Flair Magnatilla that I have been building for a while and to get it finished. Once completed I was going to look at the F2B and finish that if I can get the plans etc. otherwise it's onto a Flair Puppeteer I have.

I have a part finished Fuselage which does have the struts fitted thankfully along with part finished wings, tail section fin. I don't have the undercarriage, tail skid or small parts etc. What I have came from a friend of a friend who was giving up flying unfortunately from what I understood the kit box with plans, remaining stuff etc. got thrown away.

In the past I have used a professional printers/copiers as they have the bigger machines so you don't have to join them all back together again. I am quite willing to pay for copies if you have somewhere near you that can do them and you send them to me, I live near Huddersfield in Yorkshire and if you are not too far away I could drive over and copy a set.

Another option if you trust me is, post them to me and I will get them copied at the printers I use and send your originals back to you.

Here's hoping we both get them finished at some point.

Bruce

Roger Marshall16/11/2019 00:49:07
52 forum posts
77 photos

Hi Bruce,

I'm not doing any model building at the moment, my projects have stalled for the time being, so will help the best I can, so you get your Bristol built. I've not done any work on mine, its just as I got it. So I've got no build experience with this kit. I have a built fuselage and tail set only, the box is full wood which I believe is all present, not so the hardware, most important the plans are present and usable.

To answer your questions and queries its best to start at the bottom and work up...

Its not that I don't trust you or the PO... I'm just very reluctant to part with the plans in such a way.

I live on the east coast of Suffolk, your welcome to pop round and take some time going over them! Assuming thats not going to be convenient any time soon, I'll check out local printers and see whats available now, the last time I tried It wasn't very fruitful, so hence more experience with tiling from smaller copies.

If you have a built tailset, wings and fuselage, you surely don't need all of the plan set anyway do you? If you can be specific about what plan sheets are vital we could perhaps concentrate on those, and they are more likely to be simpler copy jobs. This weekend I'll get the lot out and blow the dust off and get some photos and build an album, if l can get descent enough photos you may be able see for yourself what's vital or not. We know the whole story best though when its all there in front of you, so the parts and contents would be in the first pages and that is the place to start isn't it! Will tell you a lot to kick off with. What do you think? I hope l can help somehow with your build project, the Bristol F2B is worthy subject if ever there was one! there is a build log posted on here which is really good, l haven't viewed it in a while but you must check it out if you haven't already.

Have you got a motor yet and what is it? What ideas do you have about the build that you may need to change to suit your requirements? Its a big model with lots off rigging up at the field, something I've not had the pleasure off in any way, but story and opinions are out there and worth searching out.

Will sort those photos and let you see.

Bye for now Roger

Chris Walby16/11/2019 06:49:49
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1030 forum posts
239 photos

Hi guys,

How about Roger takes photos of the sheets and puts them on here or email/whatapp? Could even be done with a mobile phone if the camera quality is okay.

Handy having a library of the images and then if you need a specific drawing just pay for that one to be copied, The other advantage is you can view the images on a pc zooming in to see detail when you need to.

Hope this helps the build along.

i12fly16/11/2019 22:22:44
avatar
578 forum posts
21 photos

I too bought a part built F2B but sold it on as I downsized my car and it would not have fitted in!

One thing I was told that seemed very important is that that CoG on the plan must be treated with caution, it is marked at a position but with the nose pointing down (why this description was used beats me -how far down??). I have read of a number of Flair F2B's that have only flown once, because they were tail heavy and finished up seriously damaged.

Other people with actual flying experience of them may be able to give better advice, but take care. As the old saying goes, nose heavy flies poorly but tail heavy flies once.

will -016/11/2019 23:14:31
avatar
582 forum posts
19 photos

exhibit A

**LINK**

Roger Marshall17/11/2019 20:04:39
52 forum posts
77 photos

HI

Bit of a nervy takeoff and climb out in the video above don't you think?

I've taken a whole load of photos of the plans I have and have to say a dissapointing effort, the number of good photos is quite small, most being just readable. A few in the album to start with... Will try again and hopefully do better. This is what the whole set looks like anyway.

Roger

img_20191117_145459.jpg

Bruce Seaton18/11/2019 18:08:53
7 forum posts
3 photos

Hi Roger I hope you are well.

I thought I better do a bit of catch up this evening. I can understand that you don't want to let those plans out of your site, no worries. In the new year I will be down near Ely for a few days to see my brother and I also want to go into London for the Model engineering show while down that way.

I can blast over to the coast one day and if possible we could meet up and in the meantime I will see what I can do about finding a printers/copiers in your area or if you find one that would be great, we can then get them reprinted also I can bring some other plans I have if your interested and copy them too and do a swap. Up my way it only cost me £1.00 a sheet for some AO copies.

On the plane itself the front end of the fus is not finished and one wing is badly warped and most probably I will make a new one hence the plans etc. I have only recently started building again after a long time off and have come a cropper with the Flair Magnatilla before I managed to get some instructions off a flying buddy.

On the engine front I intend to put something around a 70 to 90 four stroke in it which I haven't actually got yet, as the engine bearers are already in I might be limited to what I can fit.

I haven't really looked too deep yet as I want to get the Magnatilla finished and its easy to get sidetracked, I will find the build post you spoke of and will have a look when I get a moment.

Thanks for the photos they don't look to bad and are pretty readable I will have a closer look later. I have the same sort of set for the Puppeteer it's a MKII with lots of ply like the F2B, my Magnatilla is such an old kit it's an original with a lot of balsa instead of the thinner ply in the MKII kits.

I am actually a fairly new flyer in that I have finally had the time to pass my A certificate this year. I have built many planes and messed around flying since I was a kid although my flying was not very good until recently and its only the last couple of years as I have now retired been able to put enough time in and get really flying.

I watched the video and I agree it didn't look great I guess that is the problem with a tail heavy plane I wonder if he did get it back on the ground okay?

If I do get it finished I think it will be worth it as I have seen a couple and they look really good, not sure how detailed I will actually make it though.

Well I better finish up and get on with the Magnatilla or it will never get finished he, he.

Bruce

David Davis18/11/2019 21:43:52
avatar
3472 forum posts
622 photos

Gentlemen, the following is not directly related to your Flair Bristol Fighter but my experienceof owning a Roy Scot BE2e which is a similar size to the Brisfit may be of some use to you.

I bought the model in a bereavement sale for £90 and fitted an OS 70 FL to it. It had been flown but not much.

be2e.jpg

I found it a difficult model to fly. There is some film footage of me flying it below and of me forgetting the French for "fourteen!" It is not as unstable as the Bristol Fighter link posted by will-o but flying it was not pleasant. What you don't see in the video are my fingers playing a tune on the transmitter just to keep the model stable!

Various cognoscenti suggested that the centre of gravity was too far to the rear, though it did match what was shown on the plan at 17cms from the leading edge of the top wing. Said cognoscenti suggested that the balance point should be about 10cms from the wing's leading edge, which in the case of the BE2e is above the centre of the forward cockpit. I added nearly 500 grammes of lead under the engine using a sardine tin as a mold to get the cg to this position and now it's much more stable. It prefers to be flown well throttled back. I hope to fly it on Wednesday as light winds are forecast.

be2e sardine tinlead.jpg

be2e fff.jpg

**LINK**

 

Edited By David Davis on 18/11/2019 21:45:38

Edited By David Davis on 18/11/2019 21:56:14

Roger Marshall20/11/2019 17:16:57
52 forum posts
77 photos

Hi

Very nice model David, looks detailed and relistic, and impressive, I wasn't able to play the video though, which is a shame its great you have a lovely model and get to fly and enjoy it. The BE2e was meant to fly as a stable aircraft and the results are well documented. The Bristol F2b was meant as a relacement for such 2 seaters with a view that they would be able to look after themselves much better. Again very well documented. Just a small part of aviation at war.

I've loaded some more photos into the album, same iffy images I have to say. My phone camera is getting more differcult to use as it switches into and out off different modes as I'm trying to use it. Thats how it is for the moment! When veiwing the album itself, I can't get a good image to view, but when selecting photos from the post itself the image is better. Is there a reason for this? Are the images any good, from the album when veiwed by others?

I'll post a few here anyway.

Bruce, you're wellcome to visit of course sometime in the future should it be required, I'm hoping to help you avoid such a situation, and get your project working easier than that.

Bad news first, is that the very sheet that you and I need to build wings on, is in fact in the worst condition of all! As yet "unused" to build wings on, it may have served as a cover for the workbench when building other parts! Sheet 11 is the one question, glue spillage, coffee stains as well as the expected creases, folds, tears and tatty edges. For me at least, perfectly fixable and usable. A good quality unmarked copy is not what it will produce. A usable copy is possible though, I think, so not a total waste for copying. The issue is then where to get a copy form, as yet I haven't looked at any local printers for this. This is A0 size, I believe, £1.00 a copy seems a bit optomistic to me locally, but fingers crossed I'm wrong.

You mentioned undercarrage and the rear tailskid is shown on the plan actual size built from tubing stock, the main undercarrage is from prebent wire is shown by diagram for assembly, not sure if mine is present, but if it is, easy to bend one the same.

Take a look through and let me know what you think, the A4s and A3s are not a problem, I know l'll be able to sort them.

My models fuselage is at about sheet 5 and 6, with the tailset also built from 7, a long way to go and not expected to start until next year, again fingers crossed. I was thinking of getting my model out for some more photos but, l need a a different camera maybe. Long time since l last rummaged through the box, l need a refresh!

Mine came with a TT 91fs and the engine bearers are spaced for this motor. Yours may be spaced for the OS series of engines and if so, you will have plenty choice.

s5.jpg

s6 (2).jpg

s7.jpg

This is about where l'm at from a starting point of veiw

A bit of the horrible bit...

s11 (4).jpg

And a couple to browse...

s9 (2).jpg

s14.jpg

Regards to all

Roger

Bruce Seaton20/11/2019 22:00:57
7 forum posts
3 photos

Evening Roger, plenty of photo's/information to mull over in the coming months that's great thanks. I've been refurbishing a Blackhorse Tornado past couple of days, I think it was originally a high wing sports trainer so a good step for me into flying IC before I attempt anything like the F2B.

I've started an album and added some photos of what I have, first two before collection from my mates flying buddy and then piled up at his place before I collected what was left not a happy plane!! You mentioned a build log but I haven't been able to find it can you send the thread or its title.

Don't worry about the coffee etc. on the plans, my flying buddy and me copied some really bad originals and they came out pretty good. Will see how we go in the coming weeks and into the new year. My plan is to come down around the 14th Jan for about a week.

Bruce

Roger Marshall20/11/2019 22:34:07
52 forum posts
77 photos

Hi Bruce, l just took a look at your photos and it seems 1 disappeared, 4 became 3 suddenly. Surely l couldn't cause that just browsing could l? Its good to see your model is quite complete and in reasonable condition.

l thought the build log was on this site, a long way back l think. I'll browse around and see if l can jog my memory and find it myself then let you know.

Roger

Roger Marshall20/11/2019 22:52:54
52 forum posts
77 photos

Ok Bruce my mistake l found the build log on another site and its here: rcgroups.com Bristol F2B Build... Worth seeing if you haven't already. Roger

Bruce Seaton21/11/2019 09:21:39
7 forum posts
3 photos

Morning, he he no it wasn't you. When I checked back I realised 2 were identical so deleted the extra one. I think I have seen that thread a while back myself but will check it out to make sure.

There is some damage in several areas and the warped wing, in a couple of places some joints have come apart so a bit worried what it has been glued together with, hopefully it won't fall to pieces. All I did when I got it was stick it in a cupboard at home so still to have a proper close look at it.

Have a good day.

Bruce

Roger Marshall30/11/2019 21:02:31
52 forum posts
77 photos

Hi Bruce,

Just to let you know l didn't give up on this, l've been checking on what printing services l can get locally. The answer is quite limited, only 2 places are able to produce A0 or A1 size prints. One quoted £15.00 for A0 and £7.50 for A1 sizes, the other quoted £26.00 for a single A0 print and £15.00 for A1.

The real issue is that both would require a digital file from which to print from, can't actually remember the file format required. Getting a suitable file becomes a bigger problem.

It would seem that l can only get straight A3 to A3, A4 to A4 size copies. Any copies or part copies of the larger plan sheets just don't seem to be obtainable, around here anyway.

Simply put, l've run out of local printers to try. I could widen my search but l bet that will show the same result or bring up different problems to think about. Just not as optimistic as l was!

Regards Roger

Bruce Seaton04/12/2019 19:18:40
7 forum posts
3 photos

Evening Roger, thanks for having a look that's not good. Those prices are crazy, seriously my prints were definitely at least A-1. Paul my flying buddy were bigger as he had some of my plans scaled up to 1.25 so were bigger copies. Between us we must of had about 8 copies of various sizes and it came to about £12 and mine were £4 and they were direct copies of existing plans. Paul used to be an Architect and in the past used these printers in Leeds for all his work so perhaps they discounted it.

What town do you live in and I will do some digging and see if I can't find a place via an Architects office as they would want the bigger equipment and even today's digital world would still want prints from original drawings.

We won't give up and it makes me more determined to find somewhere to get some copies done, I'm still planning to visit Cambridgeshire and London in mid January, are you retired? as if we do find somewhere it will likely not be open at Weekends and will need to go in the working week.

The other option is do you have any plans to visit Yorkshire in the near future? You could bring them up here and we can use the ones Paul and I used in the past.

Regards,

Bruce

Roger Marshall08/12/2019 15:51:48
52 forum posts
77 photos

Hi Bruce.

I did wonder if the prices you were paying had something to do "mates rates" and certainly don't have any options like that myself. I haven't given up just yet and have expanded my search a little. oddly enough the inclusion of the word "digital" in my seaches has shown one more place to try that do photocopies of the sizes required so I'll enquire this week.

Also, my kit does contain the main undercarriage and these are straight forward to photocopy or bend to pattern from 8swg and 10swg piano wire respectively.

I;ve got no plans to travel to Yorkshire, or anywhere close even, so can't help there! Sorry!

Roger

Roger Marshall14/12/2019 16:53:09
52 forum posts
77 photos

Hi Bruce

I did get a chance to check out the last place I found to do copying, the shop is quite close to me but I only managed time for phone enquiries. The good news is they can do copys of A0 sizes at £7.50 each and A1 size is £7.00 each, as a while you wait service. Had to be the last place I tried I suppose!! I should be able to make a visit sometime this coming week before he closes for the holidays, or the new year even. So something reasonably easy could be sorted, for example, if you ring ahead and pay for the copying you require I could then take the plan there to copy. It may be possible for them to post to you direct, I forgot to ask that, or you could still collect from me in January.

So the problem is looking a bit easier to sort now. Happy days!

Regards Roger

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