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Veron Avro 504N

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Robert Parker13/10/2019 16:59:46
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913 forum posts
1174 photos

Hi All,

My work bench has been clear for a week now and I need to build again. Having finished my Dornier I had three model in mind to build next and after a looking through the pile of un-built kits and thinking well maybe this one or that one and one day but not today, I finally made the decision on the Avro 504 kitted by Veron many many years ago in fact even before I took up this great hobby.

avro 504 a.jpg

I purchased this kit just over a year ago to replace one I sold a few years ago and regretted selling it, so this one gets built and I have everything I need apart from covering. I even have a choice of engines. Although, the instruction say that it will fly with a range of 2 strokes 23 - 36. The engines I have are an SC 36, OS 40FS and an OS 52FS.

dsc07717.jpg

Having unfolded the delicate plans, they are 40-50 years old, and placed each engine on the plan. Having done so I think the OS 40 FS will fit the bill and is the same size as the dummy engine blocks.

dsc07721.jpg

The model is for rudder and elevator though it should be not too difficult to add ailerons.

Has anyone out there built one of these kits?

That's all for now, going to make a start

Regards

Robert

Geoff Sleath13/10/2019 17:46:21
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3434 forum posts
297 photos

I'm pretty sure it's a Veron 504 N that a club mate has been trying to fly recently. He built it several years ago and a relaxing flyer it is not, so be warned. He's converted it to electric but I think he had it glow powered originally. He has ailerons on his and thinks without them it would be totally unflyable. Even one of the club's best pilots had problems.

He was having a successful flight as I arrived a few weeks ago but, when I congratulated him on it because it looks great in the air, he commented it was a lot harder than it looked. There are no obvious faults in the comstruction and Les's models usually fly OK so it's mystery why this is so tricky.

Geoff

Bob Cotsford13/10/2019 19:03:53
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8032 forum posts
444 photos

I think my 1 1/2 Strutter from the Veron kit is a similar size and used to fly ok on a 20 2 stroke so the 40FS should be plenty. It's rudder only and doesn't need much rudder movement or it dutch rolls. When I had better thumbs it could be thrown around a bit.

Robert Parker13/10/2019 19:10:57
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913 forum posts
1174 photos

Hi Geoff,

That's a shame because it looks like it should be a nice flier.

I once built a 48" Tiger Moth a DB plan which was for rudder / elevator and flew very well. I built a new lower wing and added ailerons and this totally transformed it's handling and was not a pleasure to fly. I wonder if adding ailerons and keeping the dihederal as per plan has anything to do with it?

Some thoughts perhaps

Regards

Robert

Tom Sharp 213/10/2019 19:43:54
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3554 forum posts
18 photos

I remember this kit being about in the 1960's. A lot were sold but I don't think many got as far as the field. Although I did see one flying very successfully. They were free flight and adding RC could be a backward step.

John Muir13/10/2019 20:00:21
372 forum posts
1 photos

I'm sure one of my clubmates built one of these for electric power not so long ago. I don't know exactly what happened but it didn't last long. He'd fitted ailerons and said it was very difficult to fly and that he thought he'd have been better off leaving it as rudder and elevator only.

brokenenglish13/10/2019 20:03:44
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464 forum posts
29 photos

Tom, I don't know whether they could be flown free-flight or not, but the plane was certainly designed for rudder, elevator, throttle. That's the only configuration mentioned in the instructions and Phil Smith's original flew superbly on a 29 2-stroke, at around 5 lbs.

Edited By brokenenglish on 13/10/2019 20:04:20

jeff2wings13/10/2019 20:13:37
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796 forum posts
1891 photos

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note the date !

Geoff Sleath13/10/2019 21:12:09
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3434 forum posts
297 photos
Posted by Robert Parker on 13/10/2019 19:10:57:

Hi Geoff,

That's a shame because it looks like it should be a nice flier.

I once built a 48" Tiger Moth a DB plan which was for rudder / elevator and flew very well. I built a new lower wing and added ailerons and this totally transformed it's handling and was not a pleasure to fly. I wonder if adding ailerons and keeping the dihederal as per plan has anything to do with it?

Some thoughts perhaps

Regards

Robert

I don't know the whole story (except the somewhat adventurous nature of the flights I saw about 6 months ago) but it did fly better when I saw it a few weeks ago. I'll probably be seeing Les next Sunday at the Ashbourne scale day and I'll ask him. I may even persuade him to have a look here.

I certainly don't know if he changed the dihedral before fitting ailerons but anything's possible.

Geoff

PatMc13/10/2019 21:57:29
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4222 forum posts
521 photos

A, sadly departed, clubmate had one many years ago. He was usually a nervous flyer but the times I saw him flying his 504 he never had any issues & always seemed to enjoy flying it. I'm pretty sure he didn't modify it for ailerons.
Only problem was that it was a pain to rig, de-rig & clean. His car wasn't big enough to transport it RTF.

Bob, the Veron 1 1/2 Strutter was a much smaller model, I had one that was nicely powered by a pre-Schnuerle OS Max 25. Lovely relaxing model to fly, alas one of those models that I later regretted selling,

Trevor Crook13/10/2019 22:17:03
868 forum posts
65 photos

Yes, the Avro is a fair bit bigger than the Sopwith. I think the .40 FS should be fine, especially if it's the more powerful Surpass.

Personally, I'd check whether the kit has the scale dihedral angle. If it's been increased to turn on rudder, I'd be inclined to reduce it to the scale amount and fit ailerons, although it will almost certainly need some rudder in the turns as well.

Lovely looking kit, I am envious!

Geoff Sleath14/10/2019 00:35:26
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3434 forum posts
297 photos
Posted by PatMc on 13/10/2019 21:57:29:

A, sadly departed, clubmate had one many years ago. He was usually a nervous flyer but the times I saw him flying his 504 he never had any issues & always seemed to enjoy flying it. I'm pretty sure he didn't modify it for ailerons.
Only problem was that it was a pain to rig, de-rig & clean. His car wasn't big enough to transport it RTF.

Bob, the Veron 1 1/2 Strutter was a much smaller model, I had one that was nicely powered by a pre-Schnuerle OS Max 25. Lovely relaxing model to fly, alas one of those models that I later regretted selling,

Les doesn't have that problem. He's a self employed joiner/cabinet maker and he has an enormous van. He only lives a couple of miles from the airfield and arrives with several ready assembled models so he's up and flying whilst the rest of us fit wings

His boss lets him have afternoons off if the weather's good, too. I just get kicked out the house.

Geoff

paul d14/10/2019 11:47:06
70 forum posts
5 photos

What a lovely project Robert! real good old fashioned aeromodelling.

On a simular vein I'm seriously considering a mercury tiger moth as my next project, kits available from the vintage model company and outerzone have the plan.

Do keep us posted with progress.

Robert Parker14/10/2019 19:08:15
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913 forum posts
1174 photos

Hi All,

Wow what a fantastic start to a new thread, thank you all for your posts and I have enjoyed reading the magazine article, which was published a few months before I left school all those years ago.

I spent much of yesterday looking over the plans and sorting through the wood. My thoughts were to start at the rear end as I usually do, but I will follow the instructions and start with the fuselage followed by the wings, that way I will not end up cutting the wrong bits of timber, use the longest first.

Also I had a look on google and found that the full size had a dihedral of 2.5 degrees on both wings. The plan asks for 2 1/4" under each wing and using a protractor it is just over 4 degrees so that may account for the difficult handling with aileron wing and 4 degrees dihedral.

504klength.jpg

Regards

Robert

Edited By Robert Parker on 14/10/2019 19:10:10

Tom Sharp 214/10/2019 19:27:46
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3554 forum posts
18 photos

If my memory serves me right there were one or two in Bader film Reach for the Sky. Could be wrong.

J D 814/10/2019 19:39:14
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1312 forum posts
78 photos

It is the one still flying [ now and then ] with the Shuttleworth trust at Biggleswade. One of the most produced aircraft ever, over 10,000 were made.

Robert Parker16/10/2019 20:56:28
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913 forum posts
1174 photos

Hi All,

Building has started smiley and one side of the fuselage is made just not joined together yet and the other side is on the way.

dsc07727.jpg

There is plenty of sketches on the drawings to add to the instructions which are good but I would prefer if when giving the material sizes they would have included which length to cut from, so far it is all small sections which are easy to replace.

Tomorrow, I'll bring up the second side up to the same level.

That's all for now

Regards

Robert

Robert Parker20/10/2019 17:50:09
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913 forum posts
1174 photos

Hi All,

I've had a very successful building weekend and the basic fuselage is completed along with tank and engine positions sorted.

dsc07728.jpg

dsc07729.jpg

First airframe I've built without any formers just 5 1/4 x 1/4 cross pieces and the bulkhead

dsc07730.jpg

Back end pulled together, although I am going to strengthen the back as the two 1/4 x 1/4 just butt together and not shaped so there is not a lot of gluing area especially when you take into account of the large hinge for the rudder.

dsc07732.jpg

The cabane struts there is very little difference in the front and rear hence the tape

dsc07733.jpg

Engine and engine mount in place the tank needs to come up a bit and is a snug fit between the engine bearers.

Next is the cross bracing for the cabane structure, putting my soldering skills to the test.

That's all for now

Regards

Robert

McG 696920/10/2019 18:18:01
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2644 forum posts
997 photos

... indeed, a very productive weekend, Robert.

Looks like you are intending to maiden it together with your Dornier... wink

Cheers

Chris

Robert Parker21/10/2019 19:00:45
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913 forum posts
1174 photos

Hi Chris,

I think things will start to slow down a bit as the build gets more involved.

But it could be possible to maiden them both

Regards

Robert

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