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New Legislation And Trainee Requirements

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Capt Kremen22/10/2019 19:33:37
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The forthcoming new legislation allows an exemption for holders of a recognised achievement scheme e.g. the BMFA 'A' Test.

However, does this mean in effect that ALL future newcomer/trainee model aircraft pilots will have to pass the official online test, PRIOR to undergoing their BMFA 'A' test training or indeed the 'A' test itself if already in training?

Great for all of us already holding a BMFA Achievement Scheme pass.

Will there now be a mad dash to get 'A', 'B' tests done before the critical implementation date? Or does it not matter a hoot as the legislation online test can be taken as many times as required and cannot be failed!

MattyB22/10/2019 19:45:28
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Even for an experienced pilot it will be more effort in absolute terms to pass an A than do the online test, so I sincerely doubt there will be any queues forming in front of the club examiners anytime soon.

Don Fry22/10/2019 19:52:18
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The area I am concerned with, is not accepting the concept of pilot in charge. Little Jonny, if supervised, does not need paperwork. What is good for a Cessna, has to be good for a little one. Aircraft, not pilot.

To answer the question, the test as applied, is so simple, that if the idiot fails it, a reasonable examiner would fail an A test candidate on sight. Why rush, the bar is set so low.

 

Edited By Don Fry on 22/10/2019 19:53:02

Jon - Laser Engines22/10/2019 22:43:26
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Im in agreement with Don. To my mind a student under instruction is not the pilot in command and so they are covered by the instructor's credentials. This has to be true as uninsured students can fly a limited number of times on the instructors insurance before they have to get their own. Learning to drive would be another example.

I would really like to see students under instruction at a registered bmfa club be exempted. They then do their A and that gets them solo. It seems totally reasonable to me.

Steve J22/10/2019 22:48:54
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If you can answer the 'A' cert questions, you can do the CAA online test.

Peter Jenkins23/10/2019 00:08:52
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Posted by Steve J on 22/10/2019 22:48:54:

If you can answer the 'A' cert questions, you can do the CAA online test.

Even if you cannot answer the "A" cert questions, you only need to remember what you have just read to answer the CAA online test questions and you can have the description page open in a window at the same time. You have to answer from memory on the "A" test!

Don Fry23/10/2019 07:02:26
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Jon I don't see why it should be restricted to a registered club. The pilot in command is all that is needed to do a risk assessment and decide if the flight can be carried out safely.

Chris Berry23/10/2019 08:02:10
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As I see it the pilot in command I.e the instructor is responsible for the flight and the trainee, particularly if they are having an initial check flight or an experience day such as the scouts does not need to have registered.

As a club instructor and generally the one who meets new members and gives check flights I won’t be enforcing any such measures. We often get newcomers who would like to learn to fly but have never flown before. Many come once, have a flight and are never seen again. Equally, many do eventually join. A sure fire way to kill the hobby is to say that no one can fly anything until they have registered and done a test. That will result in no new members, as it immediately commits people to something formal before they’ve made their mind up by having an initial flight.

Edited By Chris Berry on 23/10/2019 08:10:13

Peter Miller23/10/2019 08:17:19
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I was not aware that the CAA test was on line. Nor have I heard that A cert holders are exempt.

Clarify please

Edited By Peter Miller on 23/10/2019 08:17:54

SIMON CRAGG23/10/2019 08:23:40
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Posted by Peter Miller on 23/10/2019 08:17:19:

I was not aware that the CAA test was on line. Nor have I heard that A cert holders are exempt.

Clarify please

Edited By Peter Miller on 23/10/2019 08:17:54

Check out the latest update on the BMFA homepage.

Jon - Laser Engines23/10/2019 08:23:50
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Posted by Peter Miller on 23/10/2019 08:17:19:

I was not aware that the CAA test was on line. Nor have I hear that A cert holders are exempt.

Clarrify please

In the latest update anyone with an A of higher bmfa certificate, or another equivalent qualification is not required to take the online test but we still have to pay the 9 quid.

In any case, Chris has it right as new members will not want to have to take a test and register before having a taster session to see if it is for them. While i understand what Steve is saying, for a newcomer being presented with a bunch of road blocks before you even take the controls is not likely to fill them with enthusiasm.

Don, i say bmfa club as it is assumed then that the instructor is fully insured and meets the bmfa requirements for an instructor. They would then transition from student under instruction to A cert with ease and it just makes things nice and simple.

Steve J23/10/2019 08:50:04
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Posted by Chris Berry on 23/10/2019 08:02:10:

As a club instructor and generally the one who meets new members and gives check flights I won’t be enforcing any such measures.

Unless the BMFA get an exemption to cover this, whoever is the operator of the model being flown will be violating article 94F.

Steve

PeterF23/10/2019 09:32:32
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The person coming for a taster session will not have to register as an operator, clearly the instructor is the operator of the model. The same strict interpretation as noted by Steve J above has also been pointed out to me by an instructor in my club, the instructor is allowing a pilot without who has not passed competence test to fly. Whoever wrote the document probably had no idea about training on buddy leads.

Don Fry23/10/2019 09:56:24
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I would hope such an exemption is sought. Without it we have a big problem. One caveat however, the pilot in charge has a pass on the government scheme or is exempt by reason of holding a certificate of competence from an approved body. The BFMA should not be exclusionary in its aims. Taster sessions are important to us. They sow seeds of desire.

Cuban823/10/2019 10:14:10
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I'm inclined to think that anyone having a 'taster session' would be treated in the same way as someone having one of those trial lessons that full size flying clubs offer either for serious enquiries about learning to fly for a PPL or a birthday present to take the controls of the Cessna, Piper or whateve for fun. AFAIA, with the exception of a safety briefing, one doesn't have to jump through official administrative hoops or be interrogated as to one's knowledge of air law or anything else. Why R/C trial flying (under supervision and with a competent/registered/qualified/rubber stamped pilot in command) be any different?

A mountain out of a molehill.

MattyB23/10/2019 10:25:02
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Posted by Peter Miller on 23/10/2019 08:17:19:

I was not aware that the CAA test was on line. Nor have I heard that A cert holders are exempt.

Clarify please

Full details here...

BMFA Update - CAA Drone and Model Aircraft Registration and Education Scheme (DRES)

"For holders of current CAA permissions or exemptions for drone operations (e.g. such as the permission related to commercial operations as required in ANO article 94(5)) and model flyers holding an achievement certificate issued by a UK model aircraft association with a CAA reviewed achievement scheme:

Remote pilots flying in accordance with a permission, exemption or operational authorisation (e.g. such as the permission related to commercial operations as required in ANO article 94(5)) that has been issued to a named UAS operator by the CAA will be exempt from having to undertake the online education training and test.

Similarly, where a UK model aircraft association already has an established and CAA reviewed ‘competency scheme’, members who hold an appropriate achievement certificate or award (such as the BMFA ‘A’ certificate) will also be exempt from having to undertake the online education training and test.

Any operators who are not covered under the conditions of a permission/exemption or do not hold a recognised association competency will need to complete the free online course.

To allow operators to demonstrate competence if challenged (for example by the police) the CAA will be issuing a formal exemption that can be used alongside existing permissions / achievements and any other relevant documents. This exemption will be in place until 30 June 2020, when new regulations are expected. We will be working with stakeholders in 2020 to put these into place.


For members of ARPAS-UK, British Model Flying Association (BMFA), Scottish Aeromodellers’ Association (SAA), Large Model Association (LMA) and FPV UK

Members will not need to register as an operator with the CAA system if they are a current member of these associations. With permission [of individual members], the associations will collect the registration fee from members directly and supply their data to the CAA. This will take place initially by 31 January 2020 and an exemption from the need to register will be put in place by 30 November to cover association members until then.

The associations will issue further detailed guidance to their members in due course. Please see www.arpas.co.uk, www.bmfa.org, www.fpvuk.org, www.largemodelassociation.com or www.saaweb.uk for further details."

Steve J23/10/2019 11:23:58
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Posted by Cuban8 on 23/10/2019 10:14:10:

I'm inclined to think that anyone having a 'taster session' would be treated in the same way as someone having one of those trial lessons that full size flying clubs offer ...

Unfortunately it doesn't matter what you are inclined to think. What matters is what is says in the ANO and any permissions/exceptions/authorisations that the CAA give the associations.

Have you read articles 94D, F & G?

Steve

Peter Miller23/10/2019 11:36:41
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Thanks for that Matty

Jon - Laser Engines23/10/2019 11:54:02
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To make this easy i just called the BMFA

Their position is that an instructor is the operator and only they need to be certified/registered or whatever so all training should, in theory, not require anything from the student as long as the instructor has the required qualifications.

Their view is that its barely going to be a blip on the radar when it comes to training and newcomers to the hobby.

In about 10 minutes an email is due to go out to all members detailing some aspects of the deal. More is comming in the following days/weeks. Its being drip fed to prevent information overload.

As you were guys, its going to be fine.

Peter Miller23/10/2019 12:04:13
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I was just wondering,Once we register and pay the fee, It would seem logical that our BMFA number would be a suitable number to put on our models.

Sorry that I used the word "logical"!

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