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The Gov't, CAA, BMFA & UAV legislation thread

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Steve J22/11/2019 11:23:09
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Posted by Cuban8 on 22/11/2019 10:47:33:

If accepting reality really means accepting as completely right, every time, anything that anyone - governments, employers, club committees or anyone else for that matter as being beyond critique, then we're really in big trouble.

I agree.

John Bisset22/11/2019 11:52:12
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Cuban8, I'm with you too !

Martin Harris22/11/2019 12:35:20
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No argument that we shouldn't make all efforts to get badly constructed or hastily introduced legislation modified or repealed but I get the feeling that there are a few people who would use the argument in order to evade their legal responsibilities - which, by the way, dilutes the argument that we are law abiding and responsible flyers, capable of being allowed concessions.

john stones 122/11/2019 13:36:35
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Posted by Cuban8 on 22/11/2019 10:47:33:
Posted by john stones 1 on 21/11/2019 18:01:06:

I see it differently, where was it ever stated it's for the good of aeromodelling ?

We got caught up in an evolving world, thanks to those fighting our corner, we still have a future. That's it.

Calm yourselves, go enjoy your hobby.

To those who don't want to accept the reality, please yourselves.

If a law doesn't do any good or is expected by its target audience to not be any good - whichever way it's dressed up and sold, it's not a good law. If accepting reality really means accepting as completely right, every time, anything that anyone - governments, employers, club committees or anyone else for that matter as being beyond critique, then we're really in big trouble. Those that are happy with this arrangement, please yourselves.............. I fear that our hobby's future is far from secure and that all of us need to be monitoring future developments with caution.

As I said before I don't allow myself to be wound up by beaurocracy or those that seem to luxuriate in it - try contacting your local council for more or less anything to see this in all it's splendour. The saga of the blocked drain outside my house would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic - anyway, not going there. Enough!laugh

 

Edited By Cuban8 on 22/11/2019 10:50:12

Rubbish me all you like, I'm O.K with it, you're leaving others and the BMFA alone whilst you do it. wink

My Council are great people always quick to respond. yes

Edited By john stones 1 on 22/11/2019 13:37:12

Jason-I22/11/2019 14:02:45
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Posted by Cuban8 on 22/11/2019 10:47:33:

If a law doesn't do any good or is expected by its target audience to not be any good - whichever way it's dressed up and sold, it's not a good law. If accepting reality really means accepting as completely right, every time, anything that anyone - governments, employers, club committees or anyone else for that matter as being beyond critique, then we're really in big trouble. Those that are happy with this arrangement, please yourselves.............. I fear that our hobby's future is far from secure and that all of us need to be monitoring future developments with caution.

Here, here.

Jason-I22/11/2019 14:06:39
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Posted by Martin Harris on 22/11/2019 11:11:46

There's a massive difference between just rolling over and with accepting that the due process of democracy has been followed. Ignoring the resulting law because you simply disagree with it is the thin edge of anarchy.

Democracy? I don't remember being given any choice on this new law?

Dickw22/11/2019 14:08:27
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Posted by Cuban8 on 22/11/2019 10:47:33:
......

................If accepting reality really means accepting as completely right, every time, anything that anyone - governments, employers, club committees or anyone else for that matter as being beyond critique, then we're really in big trouble. ....................

Edited By Cuban8 on 22/11/2019 10:50:12

That seems to be a very strange way of looking at "accepting reality".

Dick

Martin Harris22/11/2019 14:18:30
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Posted by Jason-I on 22/11/2019 14:06:39:
Posted by Martin Harris on 22/11/2019 11:11:46

There's a massive difference between just rolling over and with accepting that the due process of democracy has been followed. Ignoring the resulting law because you simply disagree with it is the thin edge of anarchy.

 

Democracy? I don't remember being given any choice on this new law?

That's rather a spurious comment - when were you given any direct say on any law or matter other than that subject that cannot be mentioned - and didn't that make everyone happy?

There's a general election being run at this very moment. It's a golden opportunity for your input to the democratic process...

Edited By Martin Harris on 22/11/2019 14:19:58

kc22/11/2019 15:27:04
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If a candidate in the election knocks on your door ask him what his politcal party is going to do to get rid of this unwanted legislation!

Alan Gorham_22/11/2019 15:31:42
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But it is wanted! Just not by model flyers.

I have noted the CAA said that "no funding was available to pay for the running of the registration scheme". Bearing in mind that is around £1M annually, I would be asking my MP if they would be prepared to support government funding for the life of the scheme for non-commercial operators such as us....

It's peanuts in the grand scheme of things.

Steve J22/11/2019 15:48:41
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Posted by Alan Gorham_ on 22/11/2019 15:31:42:

I have noted the CAA said that "no funding was available to pay for the running of the registration scheme". Bearing in mind that is around £1M annually, I would be asking my MP if they would be prepared to support government funding for the life of the scheme for non-commercial operators such as us....

I said that to my MP back in April...

Alan Gorham_22/11/2019 15:51:00
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Wasn't an election in April...

Steve J22/11/2019 15:51:59
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At some point in the last day or so CAA have changed the labelling instructions on their website -

"Your operator ID must be:

visible from the outside, or within a compartment that can easily be accessed without using a tool"

Lima Hotel Foxtrot22/11/2019 16:33:09
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This thread is like a masterclass in splitting hairs!

Anyway, I've registered, it was dead easy (basically an open book test), because I have a PFCO and need to have this in my ops manual. I don't like it, I resent the £9, I resent that I have to do it because I've already sat written and flight exams.

Quibble all you like about "the reality", or boast about how you are now a freedom fighter and defending our civil liberties in the face of airspace monetisation, it's happened and we all have to live with it and make the best of the situation.

Don Fry22/11/2019 16:57:54
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Steve, as an ex practitioner of enforcing law, and having been known to split hairs, I would say to my boss,having read the CAA instructions.

What do you reckon the chances are that I meet some clever clogs, who before flight says he has not attached his removable label, and after flight, it has fallen off. How the hell do you propose I enforce that. Thumb screws?

Steve J22/11/2019 17:30:46
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Don, I was surprised when I saw the labelling instructions a few weeks ago and saw the word 'removable'. When I did the beta back in August the labelling instructions were the same as the ones in the US: permanent; engraved, printed or marker pen. I am assuming that they are saying removable at the moment because the number format hasn't been agreed with EASA and they are expecting it to have to change it, possibly to add a country code.

Ask your clever clogs for their registration details, exemptions, certificates etc (the powers for this are in the bill that failed because of the GE and will doubtless be back in the new year). If they don't have the documents with them, tell them to present the documents at a station within 7 days.

Edited By Steve J on 22/11/2019 17:37:07

Pete B - Moderator22/11/2019 17:31:21
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Gents, it's sad to see that the subject has reached the stage where forumites are sniping and bitching at each other here, when modellers throughout Europe and further afield have been presented with a fait accompli, despite the best efforts of the various national bodies to make the 'best of a bad deal' for their members. I think we're really just collateral damage in a wave of populism in the political world.

Putting it into perspective, I suspect there's a lot more of consequence in our lives coming down the road towards us.....face 4

Pete

john stones 122/11/2019 18:02:18
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Posted by Pete B - Moderator on 22/11/2019 17:31:21:

Gents, it's sad to see that the subject has reached the stage where forumites are sniping and bitching at each other here, when modellers throughout Europe and further afield have been presented with a fait accompli, despite the best efforts of the various national bodies to make the 'best of a bad deal' for their members. I think we're really just collateral damage in a wave of populism in the political world.

Putting it into perspective, I suspect there's a lot more of consequence in our lives coming down the road towards us.....face 4

Pete

I heard a rumour the free Fantasy F1 might be coming to an end. question

Nigel Heather22/11/2019 18:17:55
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Changing the subject a little.

I’m not into what the public thinks of drones so don’t know that much about them and not up to speed with the latest technology. But I do regularly visit a technology forums which has an active drone section where most of the content is about DJI products.

Today I learned about the new DJI Mavic Mini, a fully capable quadcopter with an all up weight of 249g and DJI makes no secret that this is a deliberate design to avoid the need for registration. This thing has a camera allowing it to be flown FPV using a mobile phone at distances of 4km and at height well above 120m.

I expect that this is the first of many as more manufacturers bring out regulation busting aircraft.

What do you guys think?

Personally, for me it brings into question why there is a threshold. Is a 250g aircraft flying above 120m any less of a hazard.

I wonder whether the CAA naively imagined that the sub-250g aircraft were toys with limited performance and capability flown indoors or in back gardens. I doubt they were imagining the likes of DJI Mavic Mini.

Appreciate that they still need to be flown within the code, but will they really.

Cheers,

Nigel

Edited By Nigel Heather on 22/11/2019 18:19:26

Steve J22/11/2019 18:27:50
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Posted by Nigel Heather on 22/11/2019 18:17:55:

What do you guys think?

That the Mavic Mini only avoids registration until the 1st July next year.

PS I find the fact the DJI seem to have decided to become an early adopter of the ASTM UAS remote identification standard much more interesting .

Edited By Steve J on 22/11/2019 18:29:49

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