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The Gov't, CAA, BMFA & UAV legislation thread

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Denis Watkins29/11/2019 13:03:26
4197 forum posts
85 photos
Posted by fly boy3 on 29/11/2019 12:55:52:

I have a B cert. Next week I will pay at my AGM, club fees, bmfa fees, and £9 registration. Will I have to wait until club treasurer sends off monies to bmfa to be forwarded to CAA, to get my operator number in order for me to fly ? Thanks

Edited By fly boy3 on 29/11/2019 12:57:54

FB

We carry on as normal, and fly

Weather permitting

While the cogs of progress continue to turn, and offices have had time to complete the work

Dickw29/11/2019 13:05:41
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605 forum posts
89 photos
Posted by fly boy3 on 29/11/2019 12:55:52:

I have a B cert. Next week I will pay at my AGM, club fees, bmfa fees, and £9 registration. Will I have to wait until club treasurer sends off monies to bmfa to be forwarded to CAA, to get my operator number in order for me to fly ? Thanks

Edited By fly boy3 on 29/11/2019 12:57:54

You won't get an operator number until early February, which is why there is an exemption valid until 23rd Feb to allow you to continue flying.

All this information is on the BMFA website.

Just keep flying as Dennis said.

Dick

Michael Adams 329/11/2019 13:09:11
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145 forum posts
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Hi, too much rubbish being banded about, smiley

Mike.

Steve J29/11/2019 13:20:15
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1774 forum posts
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Posted by fly boy3 on 29/11/2019 12:55:52:

I have a B cert.

Do you also have an 'A'? The article 94F exemption doesn't mention 'B's.

Martin Harris29/11/2019 13:26:31
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9171 forum posts
242 photos

Steve - check the small print at the bottom of the exemption (page 2 of 2) where it states that a person in possession of a B certificate has already met the standard required and that the A is the minimum standard listed.

 

 

Edited By Martin Harris on 29/11/2019 13:28:58

Steve J29/11/2019 13:28:49
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1774 forum posts
51 photos
Posted by Martin Harris on 29/11/2019 13:26:31:

check the small print at the bottom of the exemption

I stand corrected.

Chris Berry29/11/2019 14:01:19
247 forum posts
1 photos

Not sure why people are asking the questions they are. The information has been published multiple times and is very clear.

Martin_K29/11/2019 14:21:28
134 forum posts
Posted by kc on 29/11/2019 12:41:59:

Perhaps its time to end this thread tomorrow with a summary of the rules that will actually apply from tomorrow! End the opinions on what should apply or could apply and give us a clear statement of the legal requirements.

This thread has a long way to run. Registration and testing is the first part of the new regime expected to come into force from 1st July 2020.

Peter Christy29/11/2019 14:47:12
1728 forum posts
Posted by Steve J on 29/11/2019 08:50:41:
Posted by Peter Christy on 29/11/2019 08:43:19:

There's a lot of inaccuracies in that article, so I wouldn't place too much faith in it.

Please list the inaccuracies in that article for those of us who aren't as well informed as you are.

1) "UK drone pilots must register their details with the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) by the end of 29 November or face a fine of £1,000."

Not true. If you are a member of one of the recognised model flying associations, you can register when you renew your membership - anytime up to the end of December.

Also, if you are not intending to fly, there is no need to register. Possession is not the offence. Flying it without registration or a suitable exemption is.

2) "In December 2018, drone sightings on the runways at Gatwick Airport caused havoc for thousands of Christmas travellers."

The only confirmed drone sightings at this incident were of police drones. There is no evidence of any malicious drone activity taking place. Perhaps not totally wrong as written, but certainly misleading.

Basically, very sloppy reporting.

--

Pete

Steve J29/11/2019 15:02:55
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1774 forum posts
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Posted by Peter Christy on 29/11/2019 14:47:12:
Posted by Steve J on 29/11/2019 08:50:41:
Posted by Peter Christy on 29/11/2019 08:43:19:

There's a lot of inaccuracies in that article, so I wouldn't place too much faith in it.

Please list the inaccuracies in that article for those of us who aren't as well informed as you are.

1) "UK drone pilots must register their details with the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) by the end of 29 November or face a fine of £1,000."

Not true. If you are a member of one of the recognised model flying associations, you can register when you renew your membership - anytime up to the end of December.

It is an article on the BBC. It is for general consumption. It is not going to go into the precise details of exactly when people have to register by or the exemptions.

2) "In December 2018, drone sightings on the runways at Gatwick Airport caused havoc for thousands of Christmas travellers."

That statement is true (OK, they probably should have used near rather than on).

I read that article and thought that it was reasonable given its intended audience.

MattyB29/11/2019 15:28:29
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2014 forum posts
31 photos
Posted by Steve J on 28/11/2019 23:16:50:

Posted by MattyB on 28/11/2019 22:57:52:

ensure you are registered as an Operator by Jan 31st if flying models over 250g.

23rd February .

Touche - I knew as I was typing that Murphy would strike! Hedging slightly wink 2 what is true is that association members intending to register as Operators via the BMFA need to do that before Jan 31st to make sure they catch the first bulk upload of information to the CAA.

There we go, think I got away with that - nothing to see here guvnor... teeth 2

MattyB29/11/2019 15:44:43
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2014 forum posts
31 photos

Another interesting one... The only BMFA club of which I am a member is telling people to do the CAA test (not the BMFA one) and get their Operator ID direct from the CAA too. Quote...

"(The club) are making no provision to collect the CAA registration fee at the time of club/BMFA membership renewal as this would introduce too many intermediaries into the registration process and create uncertainty over your legal status to fly."

...and (after detailed bullets on how to do that via the CAA site)…

"...You are then immediately legal to fly without having to rely on exemptions which are still evolving, see latest BMFA news release."

I have to say that were I on the committee of a BMFA club at this stage I would be tempted to go the same route to ensure the liability was fully on the individual to comply and that no paperwork/admin errors could be introduced by the club.

Frank Skilbeck29/11/2019 16:32:19
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4608 forum posts
101 photos

I'm surprised they are saying this as their members will now have to do their own registration separately and then make a note of when it has to be renewed, especially as BMFA newsletter also requests that members register via the BMFA to give the BMFA more clout

"We need the support of our members to make this work. If insufficient numbers utilise the concessions we have secured, then they are perhaps less likely to be available to us in the longer-term solutions we agree with the CAA from June 2020 onwards."

john stones 129/11/2019 16:46:58
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11193 forum posts
1507 photos

Yep, ignore the BMFAs call to back it's position, then at a later date criticise if things don't go your way.

Stick with the BMFA.

Martin Harris29/11/2019 17:13:08
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9171 forum posts
242 photos

It seems a rather short sighted option. If it's the club I suspect it may be they have a BMFA rep as chairman which makes it all the more odd!

My club has proposed adding a simple rule that members must abide by all pertinent legislation and is offering to process operator registration at renewal - making it simple for members to comply and not have to remember to register elsewhere.

We cannot check compliance other than a simple visual check that an operator's number is being displayed - we neither know, nor are entitled to check its validity if obtained through another route.

The considerable efforts made and continuing to be made by the organisations have already gained important concessions for their members and I very much hope further improvements will come about, fuelled by the respect of the CAA in their effectiveness as organising and representative bodies. This can only be eroded by third parties discouraging members from working through and with them.

Edited By Martin Harris on 29/11/2019 17:19:58

Steve J29/11/2019 17:21:09
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1774 forum posts
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Posted by Frank Skilbeck on 29/11/2019 16:32:19:

... BMFA newsletter also requests that members register via the BMFA to give the BMFA more clout

Do you believe that? The BMFA decided not to take the CAA up on their offer of a bulk transfer when the fee was £16.50 (BMFA 23/8/19). Based on what has happened on the last year, it seems to me that the biggest factor in deciding how good the article 16 authorisation will be is who the Secretary of State is.

It is also worth noting that ARPAS-UK have opted out of doing a bulk transfer.

Ron Gray29/11/2019 17:23:25
1707 forum posts
479 photos

The CAA are fully aware of the number of members represented by the BMFA, after all its been pushed often enough over the last year or so. In my humble opinion it will make very little difference to the BMFAs position in negotiations with the CAA and I think that it would be grossly unfair for anyone to blame those who have registered direct with the CAA for any ‘failures’ by the BMFA.

Peter Christy29/11/2019 17:30:40
1728 forum posts

I have attended two club AGMs since last Saturday. At the first, there were only two members who didn't have a suitable competence certificate. Since then, both have taken the BMFA online test and passed, despite one of them being a self confessed computerphobe!

At both AGMs it was decided that since all the members had internet access, it would be up to members to handle their own BMFA renewals via the portal. This would considerably reduce the strain on membership secs, who now only have to worry about getting club subs in.

All the members of both clubs were happy with this (as were the membership secs!) as it leaves control in their own hands, and they have all been thoroughly briefed on what they need to do and when. Contact details were provided for anyone who might have queries, but so far none have emerged.

Simple, easy and efficient!

--

Pete

Andy Symons - BMFA29/11/2019 17:36:23
611 forum posts
1 photos
Posted by Peter Christy on 29/11/2019 17:30:40:

I have attended two club AGMs since last Saturday. At the first, there were only two members who didn't have a suitable competence certificate. Since then, both have taken the BMFA online test and passed, despite one of them being a self confessed computerphobe!

At both AGMs it was decided that since all the members had internet access, it would be up to members to handle their own BMFA renewals via the portal. This would considerably reduce the strain on membership secs, who now only have to worry about getting club subs in.

All the members of both clubs were happy with this (as were the membership secs!) as it leaves control in their own hands, and they have all been thoroughly briefed on what they need to do and when. Contact details were provided for anyone who might have queries, but so far none have emerged.

Simple, easy and efficient!

--

Pete

I have just been looking at the renewal process on the BMFA portal that will be going live on Monday morning, it's sooooooooo easy!!! Click to renew membership, tick a box if you want to be registered with the CAA, tick another box if you want one of the super dooper awesome plastic membership cards, go to the cart and pay. It is so simple why would you do anything else!

john stones 129/11/2019 17:37:34
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11193 forum posts
1507 photos

Can't see where anyone is being blamed for future failures ?

What has been said is If BMFA members don't use their own negotiated means of complying, it may weaken the BMFAs hand at future negotiations, when/if they request a separate structure for us.

Is that a grossly unfair comment ?

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