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The Gov't, CAA, BMFA & UAV legislation thread

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Andy Symons - BMFA01/12/2019 15:45:06
585 forum posts
1 photos
Posted by AndyD on 01/12/2019 15:00:47:
Posted by Martin Harris on 01/12/2019 14:47:13:

I think it means you need to call their office.

Perhaps they have the wrong email address on file?

they send me emails so it cant be that plus I went through all this last year and ended up doing it through our club which they trying to stop,

Who is trying to stop you doing it through the club? Drop an email to membership@bmfa.org and I am sure it will be easily sorted.

You are trying to login at https://bmfa.azolve.com I assume? Renewals are available from tomorrow.

MattyB01/12/2019 19:02:51
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1998 forum posts
30 photos
Posted by Lima Hotel Foxtrot on 01/12/2019 09:49:20:

It is interesting to see how different clubs are taking this on board.

I am in two clubs, with wildly differing approaches...

Club 1 insists that the duty man must check any members without an A for proof of competency before they fly. Mind you, this basically means that all club ID will have to be checked on the field to see who has an A, and nobody is allowed to fly solo without an A anyway. Thus: No numbers, no fly. This is the club that will only let you fly if your TX/RX are the same brand. They sure do love some pettifogging faffing around in that club.

Club 2 is working on the basis that it is the individual flyers responsibility (club sec spoke to BMFA re this, so it's gold), the club has is not there to police on behalf of the CAA, and that if you can take-off, fly a circuit and land without being obviously dangerous go and fly.

Guess which field I go to more often...

The committee of Club 1 may want to consider whether they still want the club to exist in 10 years - I can’t imagine many new meme era sticking around with an attitude like that.

john stones 101/12/2019 19:15:52
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10825 forum posts
1482 photos

The policing comments confuse me, all clubs police to some extent, seems mountains are being made of molehills to me.

Our members will know the rules and the law of the land, will we be checking all and sundry ? Nope, we don't do for all the other rules that have been in place for years, so why change.

Would/will we address anyone breaking the law deliberately ? Clubs well being comes first, as it always has. So what's changed ?

Martin Harris01/12/2019 19:17:16
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9079 forum posts
224 photos
Posted by MattyB on 01/12/2019 19:02:51:
 

The committee of Club 1 may want to consider whether they still want the club to exist in 10 years - I can’t imagine many new meme era sticking around with an attitude like that.

...or the members might consider whether they need a new committee!

Edited By Martin Harris on 01/12/2019 19:18:36

Steve J01/12/2019 19:24:43
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1732 forum posts
50 photos
Posted by Cuban8 on 01/12/2019 14:56:10:

According to the Drone Code................."Keep the right distance from people and property. People and properties – 150ft (50m)"

Did you read the first few sentences of that section of the drone code?

Cuban801/12/2019 20:05:27
2831 forum posts
1 photos
Posted by Steve J on 01/12/2019 19:24:43:
Posted by Cuban8 on 01/12/2019 14:56:10:

According to the Drone Code................."Keep the right distance from people and property. People and properties – 150ft (50m)"

Did you read the first few sentences of that section of the drone code?

Yes I have read it and understand the statement no closer than 50M.Top of the page points 3-7. What I'm saying is does that mean an unobstucted 50M or as I suggest in one's garden with a fence covering all paths to a close neighbouring property? What about hovering a drone/heli inside a clearing within clump of trees thats <50M of a property?

I know a model shop where they test hover customers' machines after repair in the fenced off area at the back of the shop - how will they get on?

 

Edited By Cuban8 on 01/12/2019 20:06:13

Steve J01/12/2019 20:10:18
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1732 forum posts
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"The distances in point 4 apply to drones and model aircraft fitted with cameras. Even if you don’t have a camera, you must still fly safely, so following these points will help you do this."

(Drone Code, point 4, para 2)

Cuban802/12/2019 09:14:53
2831 forum posts
1 photos
Posted by Steve J on 01/12/2019 20:10:18:

"The distances in point 4 apply to drones and model aircraft fitted with cameras. Even if you don’t have a camera, you must still fly safely, so following these points will help you do this."

(Drone Code, point 4, para 2)

To sum up then.......providing your model is not equipped with a camera, the 50M rule doesn't apply but should instead be used as a guide to ensure safe flying.

Q. Providing I'm happy that I can hover my non-camera equipped heli within 50M of adjoining properties safely, I and anyone else in a similar situation is good to go.

RC Plane Flyer02/12/2019 10:18:02
675 forum posts
19 photos

What a great point here there has been all this talk about Drone and Aircraft and no mention of Helicopters looks like I need to ammend my Xmas pressy list

John Tee02/12/2019 18:05:53
807 forum posts
65 photos

Our club will check for Competency certificate at our AGM and renewal night, to cover the club in case of any incidents from "illegal" fliers. No certificate - no flying renewal only associate membership.

John

Martin Harris02/12/2019 18:45:24
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9079 forum posts
224 photos
Posted by RC Plane Flyer on 02/12/2019 10:18:02:

What a great point here there has been all this talk about Drone and Aircraft and no mention of Helicopters looks like I need to ammend my Xmas pressy list

I know the comment was tongue in cheek but last time I looked, helicopters were aircraft!

As for John's club checking competency certificates, luckily all our pilots except those under training have A certs. so making such a decision is irrelevant but wouldn't a simple rule requiring members to adhere to current legislation cover it now - and in the future when [most likely not if] legislation and/or exemptions change.

It seems to me that by doing these checks, your club is taking on a responsibility to continuously police the regulations unnecessarily and in the event of any official investigation the committee might find themselves answering questions in court.

john stones 102/12/2019 19:15:51
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10825 forum posts
1482 photos
Posted by Martin Harris on 02/12/2019 18:45:24:
Posted by RC Plane Flyer on 02/12/2019 10:18:02:

What a great point here there has been all this talk about Drone and Aircraft and no mention of Helicopters looks like I need to ammend my Xmas pressy list

I know the comment was tongue in cheek but last time I looked, helicopters were aircraft!

As for John's club checking competency certificates, luckily all our pilots except those under training have A certs. so making such a decision is irrelevant but wouldn't a simple rule requiring members to adhere to current legislation cover it now - and in the future when [most likely not if] legislation and/or exemptions change.

It seems to me that by doing these checks, your club is taking on a responsibility to continuously police the regulations unnecessarily and in the event of any official investigation the committee might find themselves answering questions in court.

Anyone like me out there ?

I haven't a clue what the score is with these policing comments, do yous check flyers are insured ?

Has the BMFA said insurance could be invalid if you fly not legal ?

I am genuinely puzzled as to what's being said.

Martin Harris02/12/2019 19:24:26
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9079 forum posts
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I understand that the BMFA have said that insurance may be invalidated depending on the exact circumstances - but they have also stated that individual members are responsible for their own compliance and that the element of insurance pertaining to the club and committee will not be affected by such a person having an accident at the club.

john stones 102/12/2019 19:33:29
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10825 forum posts
1482 photos

Yep, Individuals have always had the responsibility Martin, Not sure if a non registered flyer hits a car is he's insured.

Or to put it another way, Who pays ?

It being said it doesn't matter at clubs ?

Martin Harris02/12/2019 19:56:03
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9079 forum posts
224 photos

My interpretation?

The insurer might not pay out if I'm held to blame for damaging property - or worse, personal injury and it's up to me to decide whether it's worth jeopardising my home and savings for the sake of a yearly £9 payment [and if I didn't hold a BMFA qualification, 3 yearly test], whether I agree with the effectiveness of the legislation or not.

As a responsible committee member, instructor and examiner, I will encourage compliance and give guidance. I will not be nominating myself as a policeman but equally, if club rules are broken I won't ignore them.

Don Fry02/12/2019 20:04:55
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4382 forum posts
52 photos

Going back to merchant shipping case law. An owner hires an engineer. He is a drunk, incompetent, lacks paperwork, but is on board. They are insured.

GONZO02/12/2019 20:18:41
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1352 forum posts
14 photos

My word, I've got to put my stick in the hornets nest and give it a good poke. Give people an opportunity to don their 'jobsworth' hats and become little official inspectors and their off. The BMFA made it perfectly clear in one of their news letters: (I'll para phrase slightly) NO POLICING BY THE BMFA, NO POLICING BY THE CLUBS, ITS PERSONAL RESPOSABILITY. Why make more work/potential trouble for ourselves?

Bee hornet keepers outfit on, it's made from titanium.

john stones 102/12/2019 20:27:53
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10825 forum posts
1482 photos
Posted by GONZO on 02/12/2019 20:18:41:

My word, I've got to put my stick in the hornets nest and give it a good poke. Give people an opportunity to don their 'jobsworth' hats and become little official inspectors and their off. The BMFA made it perfectly clear in one of their news letters: (I'll para phrase slightly) NO POLICING BY THE BMFA, NO POLICING BY THE CLUBS, ITS PERSONAL RESPOSABILITY. Why make more work/potential trouble for ourselves?

Bee hornet keepers outfit on, it's made from titanium.

You ain't got a stick.

Yep Martin the BMFA tells me, the wrongdoer may get chased for the money, I'm safe.

Don Fry02/12/2019 20:31:00
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4382 forum posts
52 photos

Gonzo is about right. Someone says, " got no number, no certificate, and that full size overflying is going to get a right scare". You have a problem with a comment, "go on, how close can you get".

But silence is not a crime.

Gonzo is histrionic however.

Wingman02/12/2019 20:36:01
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1125 forum posts
405 photos

To ensure that my Club and its officers have no legal involvement with these Government regulations I will be insisting that all members will sign a copy of the following affidavit which will be retained in club files :-

I, the undersigned, being a member of the xxxxxxxxxx model flying club, confirm that I carry
appropriate model flying insurance and comply with all current CAA regulations in regard to model
aeroplane and drone flying.
I further agree to absolve the xxxxxxxxxx model flying club from the consequences of any noncompliance
with the above conditions.
Signed ………………………… Date………………………
Print Name……………………………………………………..

There will be no policing by the club.

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