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The Gov't, CAA, BMFA & UAV legislation thread

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Nigel Heather07/12/2019 18:19:43
193 forum posts
7 photos
Posted by Dickw on 07/12/2019 17:45:43:
Posted by Nigel Heather on 07/12/2019 17:20:58:.......................

Are you sure about (1) going further than the legislation? Have a look at the 2nd bullet point on the CAA site here.


That is the vanilla CAA requirement without the FPV amendment. The additional legislation requires that you have a companion who maintains line of sight at all times to comply with the main CAA requirement. However, the legislation does not require that the ‘spotter’ has any control of the drone.

So yes, I maintain that the first option does comply with the legislation but goes further than the legislation requires.

Cheers,

Nigel

Martin Harris07/12/2019 18:34:17
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9033 forum posts
224 photos

Isn't it simply outlining a compliant situation rather than specifying the minimum?

cymaz07/12/2019 19:11:41
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8883 forum posts
1176 photos

I've tried to renew my membership but I'm having problems. Every time I click on renew it comes up with nothing in the box......any one else had this? Am I doing something wrong??

Bobby07/12/2019 19:56:25
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86 forum posts
149 photos

Hi cymaz, just did mine including the CAA bit about five minutes ago no problems, but my non primary one renewed me to the same end date Dec 2019 that is covered by my membership already to Dec 2019 Emailed BMFA for help Bobby

Edited By Bobby on 07/12/2019 19:56:52

cymaz07/12/2019 21:09:00
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8883 forum posts
1176 photos

When I press renew, I get this !

untitled page.jpg

Andy Symons - BMFA07/12/2019 21:30:13
572 forum posts
1 photos
Posted by cymaz on 07/12/2019 21:09:00:

When I press renew, I get this !

untitled page.jpg

Can you try now please.

AndyD07/12/2019 22:10:53
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717 forum posts
503 photos

I kept getting the same but after 3 or 4 attemps it worked.

cymaz07/12/2019 22:17:07
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8883 forum posts
1176 photos

Andy S is an utter star......all paid now. Thank youyes

Dickw07/12/2019 23:24:33
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527 forum posts
77 photos
Posted by Nigel Heather on 07/12/2019 18:19:43:
Posted by Dickw on 07/12/2019 17:45:43:
Posted by Nigel Heather on 07/12/2019 17:20:58:.......................

...

Are you sure about (1) going further than the legislation? Have a look at the 2nd bullet point on the CAA site here.


That is the vanilla CAA requirement without the FPV amendment. The additional legislation requires that you have a companion who maintains line of sight at all times to comply with the main CAA requirement. However, the legislation does not require that the ‘spotter’ has any control of the drone.

So yes, I maintain that the first option does comply with the legislation but goes further than the legislation requires.

Cheers,

Nigel

There isn't actually an FPV amendment - it's an exemption which is slightly different. Have a look under "Permissions and Exemptions" in the left hand column of that link I posted.

The legislation is as described in my link, so I believe that test question option 1) is correct. The exemption allows a variation in some circumstances and is the exemption that option 2) in the test is referring to.

It all seems fairly straight forward to me.

The answer to a similar question in the actual CAA test asking if it is safe to fly behind a line of trees is - "No, because he must be able to see his drone at all times.". There is nothing in the CAA test that allows for FPV, at least the BMFA version allows for the exemption,

Dick

Nigel Heather08/12/2019 15:55:05
193 forum posts
7 photos

Been looking through the BMFA questions this afternoon, and as many have said most are pretty straight-forward and I will have no trouble achieving the 16/20 passmark. But I want to get 20/20.

There are two questions that I could answer but am not 100% confident, because I don’t think they are specifically covered in the ANO, exemptions and drone code.

The questions are

Q9 - You’re out flying your model aircraft or drone when it starts to snow. What do you need to consider? (select all that apply)

  • That you’re not getting too cold to be able to use your controller
  • That your aircraft will work in cold temperatures
  • That you can still see your aircraft through the snow.

My first thoughts were (1) and (2) and probably (3). But then I started to think whether there was a trick to this. The question says that you are already flying. Now when it starts snowing it doesn’t just get cold all of a sudden, it would have been cold before you started to fly. So you should have considered 1) and 2) then not waited until it started to snow. So I wonder whether the correct answer is just 3). What do you think?

Q15 - Which of the following should you think about when flying your model aircraft and drone? (Select all that apply)

  • If you’re not in full sight, people may not realise what you’re doing and call the police.
  • People may be worried about having their privacy invaded
  • You could cause a serious incident if you don’t make sure you always fly safely and legally

At first I thought it was all three. Then after some thought I wonder whether the only correct answer is 3) as the very first thing the drone code and the ANO say is that it is your responsibility to fly safely and within the law. Now whilst 1) and 2) are genuine concerns, they are third party perceptions and the legislation does cover peoples opinions. What do you think?

Cheers,

Nigel

Jason-I08/12/2019 16:33:10
277 forum posts
37 photos
Posted by Nigel Heather on 08/12/2019 15:55:05:

Been looking through the BMFA questions this afternoon, and as many have said most are pretty straight-forward and I will have no trouble achieving the 16/20 passmark. But I want to get 20/20.

There are two questions that I could answer but am not 100% confident, because I don’t think they are specifically covered in the ANO, exemptions and drone code.

The questions are

Q9 - You’re out flying your model aircraft or drone when it starts to snow. What do you need to consider? (select all that apply)

  • That you’re not getting too cold to be able to use your controller
  • That your aircraft will work in cold temperatures
  • That you can still see your aircraft through the snow.

My first thoughts were (1) and (2) and probably (3). But then I started to think whether there was a trick to this. The question says that you are already flying. Now when it starts snowing it doesn’t just get cold all of a sudden, it would have been cold before you started to fly. So you should have considered 1) and 2) then not waited until it started to snow. So I wonder whether the correct answer is just 3). What do you think?

 

Q15 - Which of the following should you think about when flying your model aircraft and drone? (Select all that apply)

  • If you’re not in full sight, people may not realise what you’re doing and call the police.
  • People may be worried about having their privacy invaded
  • You could cause a serious incident if you don’t make sure you always fly safely and legally

At first I thought it was all three. Then after some thought I wonder whether the only correct answer is 3) as the very first thing the drone code and the ANO say is that it is your responsibility to fly safely and within the law. Now whilst 1) and 2) are genuine concerns, they are third party perceptions and the legislation does cover peoples opinions. What do you think?

Cheers,

Nigel

 

 

Q9: 1,2 & 3. No trick. Select ALL that apply.

Q15: Ditto, all 3. Don't overthink this stuff.

 

 

Edited By Jason-I on 08/12/2019 16:35:11

Nigel Heather08/12/2019 16:58:10
193 forum posts
7 photos

Thanks, yes, I probably looking for catches. Comes of working in the IT business where I know from working on both sides of the contract that requirements that are ambiguous or open to interpretation are going to be costly down the road for the customer.

So I guess I’m always looking at things to see if they could be interpreted any differently.

Cheers,

Nigel

Peter Jenkins08/12/2019 23:40:27
1315 forum posts
132 photos

Nigel, remember that the best is the enemy of the good! I did the test just to see what it was like and scored 19/20 and I have a B and am an Examiner. The one I got wrong was just because I was over thinking the issue. Just aim to pass and if you don't you can take it again. If you pass, there is no need to take it again because you didn't get them all right. Hope that helps. You would probably have passed by now if you hadn't been hung up on getting full marks. No one will know anyway! wink

Paul C.09/12/2019 07:56:22
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609 forum posts
150 photos

Hi all, just got back from hols so decided to sort my BMFA membership etc using go membership site. All went well until I tried to select by card payment, I could not get the payment screen to appear logged out several times but no joy. I was using my android galaxy tablet and Google Chrome. Fired up the trusty laptop signed in to go membership and had no problem with the card payment, membership sorted, CAA sorted and posh membership card on order 👍confirmation emails received as well 😁.

Not complaining just posting for information , suspect the site may have a few quirks with android applications. I found it a very easy operation and am sure any little issues will soon be sorted, great job BMFA 👍

Paul.

Bill Wood09/12/2019 10:07:41
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51 forum posts

NEED TO CARRY COPY OF CAA EXEMPTION NOTICE E4956 WHEN FLYING (if applying via BMFA):

After renewing my BMFA membership and opting for CAA registration at the same time on the azolve website, all very quick and easy, I assumed that I could just continue flying ( I have a BMFA FW(A) certificate) and wait for registration and numbers to come from CAA in February 2020. However a club member pointed out that I must carry a copy of the CAA exemption notice plus proof of BMFA membership and copy of achievement scheme certificate whenever I'm flying. The CAA Exemption Notice E4956 states this in paragraph 3. Sorry if you all know about this requirement, but I must have missed it when I renewed BMFA membership. Of course this only applies if you apply for CAA registration through the BMFA or other recognised organisation. Copies of notice E4956 can be obtained from the BMFA website under EXEMPTIONS.

Peter Jenkins09/12/2019 11:04:55
1315 forum posts
132 photos

Bill, all the relevant exemption certificates are in your BMFA News pack for December. E4956 is not in the BMFA supplied pack as it does not specifically cover the same ground as the 3 Exemptions (E4972, 4973 and 4974) in the BMFA News pack. The only one not there is the 400 ft exemption and you do not have to carry that with you - but I do, just in case.

Bill Wood09/12/2019 11:46:00
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51 forum posts

Thanks Peter, My apologies to the BMFA . I have just received my copy of the December BMFA NEWS together with the relevant copies of the exemptions all on a convenient card. Thank you BMFA. We still have to carry these with us when flying or operating a model.

Martin Harris09/12/2019 12:54:15
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9033 forum posts
224 photos

Most of us have smartphones these days - it's easy to download the exemptions and membership card onto one and it's been confirmed that having it readily accessible [not necessarily on your person] in this form is acceptable. No paper to forget or blow away when you open your transmitter case!

Ben B09/12/2019 14:41:57
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1412 forum posts
4 photos

I'm really confused! Do we know if the upcoming CAP 1789 and EASA drone rules will impact on the requirements of registration? Some of the questions in the BMFA test and the CAA website rules seem to contradict 1789. e.g. EASA suggests < 250g legacy models can be flown pretty much anywhere, just not over crowds as part of the A1 criteria.

e.g. https://register-drones.caa.co.uk/drone-code says for <250g you don't have to register but you still have to follow the rules which means you can't fly closer than 50m to people (30m) for landing.

Such a drone, however, would be A1 which means you can fly over people but not crowds.

So which one is it? >50m until EASA comes in and then A1?

It would help if the CAA produced an app were you could plug in the details e.g. whether you're registered, weight of model, FPV or not, location etc and it says whether you can fly or not! I've read as much of the specifications as I can and I'm completely lost. Not overly tempted to ignore it and just go fly and cross my fingers but really this is drowning the sport in bureaucracy.

Why didn't they just have a "flying a drone without due care and attention" or "dangerous drone flying" law and be done with it- allow judges to decide what is / isn't allowed! Or have a non-specific "health and safety" set of regs which mean you have to assess whether it's okay to fly. Some of the specs seem very specific and yet at the same time vague (e.g. what is a "recreational area" or a "congested area".

Steve J09/12/2019 15:08:45
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1698 forum posts
50 photos
Posted by Ben B on 09/12/2019 14:41:57:

I'm really confused!

The current drone and model aircraft code, competence test and registration requirements are based on UK law. The EU implementing regulation starts to apply from the 1st July 2020. The CAA state in 1789 that the ANO and various regulations will need to be changed to comply with the EU regulations. CAP 722B was changed last week.

The associations are negotiating an article 16 authorisation with the CAA. We will have to wait to see what this says before we know what the full impact of the EU regulations will be.

There is supposed to be an update of/replacement for CAP 658 in the pipeline, but this has been the case for the last four years, so I am not holding my breath.

Edited By Steve J on 09/12/2019 15:10:31

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