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MattyB23/10/2020 16:21:25
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Posted by Alan Gorham_ on 22/10/2020 15:06:56:

While that may be true, personally I have to say I've spent a minimal amount of time and money complying with my end of the DMARES requirements and it has in no way detracted from my flying fun this year.

I don't doubt that, but the big question is whether that will be the case in the coming years when remote ID etc is likely to come into play. In the shorter term most of us will be reliant of the Article 16 exemption the BMFA are currently negotiating to be able to fly legally in 2021 at public or shared access sites. If that does not address the issues around distance from members of the public and buildings in the revised CAP 1789 then we will have some pretty big problems to face...

Edited By MattyB on 23/10/2020 16:22:35

Michael Adams 423/10/2020 20:07:24
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HI, I for one are not to worried for now, in the coming years there will not be to many of us left, if this is going to be so much trouble, then no young ones are going to bother to model, also with this balsa wood problem with China no one will be able to purchase any. So will the shows gradually close and get smaller so that no one will attend?? Good luck & stay safe every one.

Mike.

Alan Gorham_23/10/2020 21:16:56
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Posted by MattyB on 23/10/2020 16:21:25:
Posted by Alan Gorham_ on 22/10/2020 15:06:56:

While that may be true, personally I have to say I've spent a minimal amount of time and money complying with my end of the DMARES requirements and it has in no way detracted from my flying fun this year.

I don't doubt that, but the big question is whether that will be the case in the coming years when remote ID etc is likely to come into play. In the shorter term most of us will be reliant of the Article 16 exemption the BMFA are currently negotiating to be able to fly legally in 2021 at public or shared access sites. If that does not address the issues around distance from members of the public and buildings in the revised CAP 1789 then we will have some pretty big problems to face...

Edited By MattyB on 23/10/2020 16:22:35

There were many voices on this forum warning of the sky falling in due to DMARES in this time last year. Didn't happen.

Problems can only be faced and overcome when it is known what the problems are...

I'm just making the point that people are starting to raise issues about renewing their OP IDs when some of us who opted for a combination of using an exemption from flyer ID and OP ID obtained via the BMFA had no issues.

I seem to remember that you had a similarly pessimistic view about the BMFA national centre a few years ago and yet it seems to have opened successfully, is holding its own and is an asset to the hobby, so forgive me if I hold different opinions to yours...

Steve J23/10/2020 21:57:46
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Posted by Alan Gorham_ on 23/10/2020 21:16:56:

I seem to remember that you had a similarly pessimistic view about the BMFA national centre a few years ago and yet it seems to have opened successfully, is holding its own and is an asset to the hobby,

The NFC may be 'an asset to the hobby', but it requires £40k/year in support. £30k in sponsorship from Integro and £10k from the BMFA (proposed budget for 2020-21).

Erfolg28/10/2020 11:09:51
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I cannot see a problem with those who have read relevant documentation, or read news reports, raising the subject.

Surely discussion is not something to discourage?

I cannot but notice that during this current Covid issue, the essentially similar situations and policies have been reported and perhaps reacted to very differently, with respect to the four parts of the UK. How policies are presented and the reactions of the various media, seems to result in very different views of any aspect. PR by the BMFA with respect to this issue will set the tone and environment both with respect to us members and perhaps more immediately with the regulator and the UK Government, Of course authority prefers as much to be unreported as possible, until policies are set in stone, as it works in their favour.

Remember that the EASA regulations were initially dismissed as something that will not affect us, in any material way.

With respect to the NFC (Buckminster), it is to early to say that it is success or any alternative. It is not unusual for expenditure to exceed income initially. Yet Zombie organisations often continue by deferring the statement of their true situation by judicious use of accounting, until the whole edifice crumbles, at present a number of household names have suffered this fate recently. On that basis the transfer of BMFA funds into the NFC needs monitoring, if that is what happening, and should not be allowed to continue indefinitely. Also any sponsorship that the NFC receives that is directly linked to the main BMFA body, should be monitored, as this could be deemed as a indirect transfer of funds.

The future is not predicable with any accuracy, although I understand that our membership is now nearer to 30,000 than the 35,000 often quoted as the present membership level. If true our numbers are in decline, the reduction is not noise, but a trend. We do not need anything which potentially reduces are numbers more, if it can be avoided

As reported our insurance provider, is under review, this must be done on the basis of provision of all the ordinary membership. Without any side benefits of a bonus returned indirectly to any section of the BMFA.

All modelers ( should be members and) probably now need the BMFA more than any other time in our modeling history. That is why in my opinion. this area of BMFA activity is possibly more important than ever, requiring our principal focus.

MattyB28/10/2020 16:47:17
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Posted by Alan Gorham_ on 23/10/2020 21:16:56:
Posted by MattyB on 23/10/2020 16:21:25:
Posted by Alan Gorham_ on 22/10/2020 15:06:56:

While that may be true, personally I have to say I've spent a minimal amount of time and money complying with my end of the DMARES requirements and it has in no way detracted from my flying fun this year.

I don't doubt that, but the big question is whether that will be the case in the coming years when remote ID etc is likely to come into play. In the shorter term most of us will be reliant of the Article 16 exemption the BMFA are currently negotiating to be able to fly legally in 2021 at public or shared access sites. If that does not address the issues around distance from members of the public and buildings in the revised CAP 1789 then we will have some pretty big problems to face...

There were many voices on this forum warning of the sky falling in due to DMARES in this time last year. Didn't happen.

Problems can only be faced and overcome when it is known what the problems are...

The problems are already well known - the EASA regs passed into lay in summer 2019, and will be implemented from Dec 31st this year. As a result we have the revised CAP 1789 which sets out clearly what is required, including the distance regs which impact on every public flying site and private ones that are "...within 150m horizontally of any residential, commercial, industrial or recreational areas". What is not known is what the BMFA have been able to secure as an Article 16 exemption for their members. We have been historically reassured this would be relatively easy and that we should wait patiently until this is revealed, but the lack of news with only 2 months to go is worrying. If this were easy I have a feeling it would have been announced by now...

MattyB28/10/2020 17:11:04
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Posted by Steve J on 23/10/2020 21:57:46:

Posted by Alan Gorham_ on 23/10/2020 21:16:56:

I seem to remember that you had a similarly pessimistic view about the BMFA national centre a few years ago and yet it seems to have opened successfully, is holding its own and is an asset to the hobby,

The NFC may be 'an asset to the hobby', but it requires £40k/year in support. £30k in sponsorship from Integro and £10k from the BMFA (proposed budget for 2020-21).

Agreed. Unfortunately the original slide decks provided by the BMFA when they were seeking approval to proceed have disappeared from their website, and the copies I took have been eaten by the file janitor on my work PC. However I did do a search and found some of the outline figures for investment that I took fro their own decks at the time - the association will have spent ~£435k on the NFC by the end of year 4 (2020) on capital setup costs and the lease, £335k from the development fund. None of that is recoverable.

It may be considered an asset in terms of as a flying site for comps/events, though for me it falls a long way short of the national centre vision sold originally. However, with less income being generated than it costs to run and the capex unrecoverable it can't be considered a financial asset to the Association or it's members.

Edited By MattyB on 28/10/2020 17:21:56

Richard Acland28/10/2020 17:56:11
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My main problem with the National Centre is that it is fine if you live within striking distance, but not so great if you live in Cornwall or the North of Scotland.I feel the money would have been better spent on helping clubs enhance their facilities throughout the country.

Former Member28/10/2020 17:58:10

[This posting has been removed]

john stones 128/10/2020 18:02:33
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I'm curious Matty, In what way does it fall short of the vision we we're given ?

Steve J28/10/2020 18:06:37
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Posted by Barrie Lever on 28/10/2020 17:58:10:

Posted by MattyB on 28/10/2020 17:11:04:

However, with less income being generated than it costs to run and the capex unrecoverable it can't be considered a financial asset to the Association or it's members.

Only time will tell if the NFC will be a success, I hope that it will, as I see no harm to the hobby in having this asset and it is an asset.

The problem that I have with the NFC is that the BMFA are paying £30k/year to rent an ex-equestrian centre. If they were paying that (or even slightly more than that) on a mortgage I would be supportive, but they aren't and there isn't a fix for the decision to rent rather than buy.

Former Member28/10/2020 18:16:05

[This posting has been removed]

Erfolg28/10/2020 18:22:53
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Some of the views are broadly similar to me own concerns. The first is that we lease the site, that suggests that many of the assets do belong to the owner of the land, in that we cannot take them with us, if we or they terminate the lease.

I also agree that for significant fraction of the UK, the site is not of easy reach. The most obvious the South West of the UK, Wales, The North West of England and much of the counties South of London.

In itself these issues do not mean necessarily that the site will or can be viable. It does suggest that any financial support of the whole of the BMFA membership could be contentious.

I am perhaps more concerned that some seem to suggest that there is a disconnect between EASA regulations and the transducer issue, there is or will be some linkage, if no today, then, some time in the future. It is an area that the BMFA does need to both monitor and influence to the best of the organisations ability.

As an organisation, the immediate future is one of shrinkage, hence the drive to rearrange the area grants. I can see the need for a strong focussed centre. Yet, if the area membership sees the centre as a fat cat, and the areas are not actively supported, discontent could rise.

Steve J28/10/2020 18:24:54
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Posted by MattyB on 28/10/2020 16:47:17:

The problems are already well known - the EASA regs passed into lay in summer 2019, and will be implemented from Dec 31st this year.

Indeed. Lots of nasties in the regulations that come in at the end of the year, but don't worry, Andy S expects that the BMFA will be issued with an article 16 operational authorisation well before the 31st December.

ken anderson.28/10/2020 18:41:19
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NFC.....I did think that the NFC was out of my reach,and couldn't see the point of it.it should be renamed the BMFA flying centre.i doubt it will be able to pay its way as such(hope i'm wrong).

I also think that a fair percentage of BMFA members join because of the 3rd party insurance.....no other reason and aren't even bothered about the NFC...and I don't think that the bmfa members who post on this forum represent the majority of opinion. I may be wrong but I think maybe the silent majority chug along flying their models and are quite happy...and couldn't care too much about the inside goings on.

*my thoughts on the matter*

ken anderson...ne...1..thoughts dept.

Capt Kremen28/10/2020 19:03:11
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Most, if not all, sports including high level popular ones like Football, rely on significant investment in the form of sponsorship, TV rights, expensive souvenirs e.g. supporter shirts. Unfortunately model flying is not in that league if you'll pardon the expression!

I echo Ken's findings at club level, an increasingly elderly membership, many of which are inactive for a variety of reasons, those that are just want, (and are required to pay for), insurance. BMFA, bless them, continue to joust at their windmills. Most in my club are not fussed about NFC, comps, Area delegates et al. Sad I know because only members can affect a change by getting involved, fight punitive legislation etc.. Enjoy our flying while we are still physically able.

Edited By Capt Kremen on 28/10/2020 19:09:35

i12fly28/10/2020 21:31:49
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Let's move on from NFC discussion, it has been done to death in the past with the same detractors raising the same issues again. No surprises it has not made a profit in 2020 with the Covid restrictions.(I've never been and probably never will but personally I think NFC is a good thing for our sport and hope it is a great success).

Thank goodness we've got BMFA arguing our corner with the relevant authorities, without them model flying as we know it would be at best, more heavily restricted or even non-existent. They need our support and I hope that their current negotiations are successful, there's not much time left.

Steve J28/10/2020 21:52:33
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Posted by i12fly on 28/10/2020 21:31:49:

No surprises it has not made a profit in 2020 with the Covid restrictions.

The NFC was expected to need £40k of support this year before covid happened. We will find out how much support it actually needed when the budget is published for this year's AGM.

Erfolg29/10/2020 14:36:11
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The Covid issue has had a significant impact on much of the economy. The plus side is that many of the areas will not have used all of there grant in support of their areas. I am sure that Areas will look at any request to support the centre favorably. Particularly to further the interaction with the various other parties, such as the legislators and the regulator.

As to transfer of funds and BMFA employees to support the Flying Centre, well that could be another matter. It could well be that the BMFA office should or could decamp to Buckminster and close the Leicester office. Although this may not fit well with many of the staff who make the BMFA work at the engine room level. I suspect some are on furlough, or working from home, which could be a way of making such an arrangement work. This would be similar to the USA model, of the NFC being a administrative centre.

Above all the influencing of future regulations and controls is the most pressing issue.

Andy Symons - BMFA29/10/2020 15:18:55
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I hope everyone has taken the time to complete the Survey, it closes at Midnight Saturday, a way to put your opinions across direct to the BMFA and of course the more responses the better.

**LINK**

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