By continuing to use this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more
Forum sponsored by:
Forum sponsored by CML

Sackys FJ3 Fury

F86 Sabre Thread

All Topics | Latest Posts

Search for:  in Thread Title in  
dirk tinck08/03/2020 00:01:12
avatar
678 forum posts
965 photos

following with interest David , good luck !

David Sack20/03/2020 20:44:42
avatar
45 forum posts
46 photos

My build has progressed slowly, largely due to paid real life work ! However my work on the cockpit canopy has been an enjoyable challenge and has come on quite well. I have not made the frame as tidy as Dirks (yet), but the fact I have a prototype frame that looks like a frame has made me smile.

Frame taking shape

Good show old chap

So more careful cutting is required and the pilot -Captain 'Stalker' Grey - is most impressed with the cockpit so far. But he remains concerned that he does not have a fuselage, tailplane or wings. The story continues ......

David Sack15/04/2020 23:05:14
avatar
45 forum posts
46 photos

Well I could not let a day go by without a posting appearing on our forum !

My work on the Fury FJ3 fuselage and tailplane at the moment is progressing but mostly its just sanding down. The canopy is at the mark 3 stage and getting close to how I want it, being diifferent from the Sabre it has required a bit of extra fiddling as I have already mentioned. Using a modified 'Dirk Technique' employing clingfilm and polyurethane varnish the frame is now quite firm and in the final shaping phase. I did spend some time on the ejector seat which is again different to the Sabre version. Getting good pictures has proven difficult and my seat is based on the few good ones I have found. Tbh I am really pleased with the look of the seat, its got that 'used' feel - Captain Grey is quite happy with it, and so am I.

Ejector seat

Peter Garsden16/04/2020 08:12:50
avatar
1778 forum posts
1361 photos

Looking great David. I suppose my question is how is the canopy going to marry up with the rest of the plane and be installed as you don't have the curvature of the fuselage yet. I have never seen this done before, so is it common?

Edited By Peter Garsden on 16/04/2020 08:13:15

David Sack16/04/2020 08:58:42
avatar
45 forum posts
46 photos

Hi Peter, thanks My sanding around the cockpit area of the fuselage is largely complete and the seating of the canopy has been tested all along so it should be okay. This earlier photograph shows the Mk1 canopy mould being aligned by the primordial fuselage

cockpit fibreglassing 1.jpg

The canopy and the fuselage marry up quite well despite the slight differences between the F-86 and the FJ3. As Phil Cooke has noted there are adjustments to be made. I have had to cut the supplied canopy in order to get a longer 'windscreen' and as a result the top has flattened by about 5mm so the curvature is slightly incorrect. This is the bit I am battling with. From a little distance I doubt anyone would notice but it irritates me no end ! In this picture the Mk1 frame and the cockpit tub are side by side.

Frame taking shape

This picture shows Capt. Grey looking out from the seated frame.

img_1834 in the tub.jpg

 

Lots more work to do but great fun. Having never done a build like this before I'm learning a lot and enjoying seeing how other peeps tackle problems - then unashamedly stealing their ideas. Hopefully we will have a presentable plane that flies. It would be my first since I was about 14 (Keil Kraft Swan and some jetex planes) some 50 years ago (gulp!!!!) when I was a young member of the Stevenage Model Aviation and Marine Society. Happy days.

 

Edited By David Sack on 16/04/2020 09:00:09

Peter Garsden16/04/2020 09:04:08
avatar
1778 forum posts
1361 photos

Ah gotcha. Didn't realise you had a complete fuselage to work with. That was my puzzle. Building is something you don't forget. Like riding a bike. It's just that the world and products have moved on a lot so you have to get used to it. I did the same. Flew and built from 15 to about 25 then packed it in until about 7 years ago.

David Sack23/04/2020 16:26:50
avatar
45 forum posts
46 photos

The North American Fury FJ3 Cockpit

Some of you may have noticed I am rather obsessive on the cockpit area. The Fury FJ3 variant has been a challenge in terms of identifying the correct dash and then sourcing the components. After some work searching my final design is based on the Fury Flight Manual downloaded from 'flight manuals on line'. My original dash had been made using cutouts and lacked precision and some details. For this work I scanned the image of the dash and then cleaned it up in photoshop.

Working images are tif files and the highest resolution I could obtain. The details will be lost on compression but the better quality you begin with the better the end result.

Step 1

step 1.jpg

Step 2 was to add some 'lights' using photoshop for the detailing. These could be detailed with holes cut into the dash and with thin coloured plastic glued behind. A light source would then be required to illuminate the dashboard. I'm not going that far just yet !

step 2.jpg

Step 3 was a bit more involved. Each instrument had to be either recreated in photoshop or copied from on line photographs and resized to fit. Again using tiff rather than jpeg files as a personal preference.

step 3.jpg

Step 4 was to complete the detailing. This next image shows the final version of the dash with my original - inaccurate - version for comparison. Several copies of the final dash were reproduced on photographic paper at the best available resolution for my printer.

original and new dash.jpg

The dash was cut to shape and tested in the 'office'.

the office 2.jpg

I'm good with that.

The next step is to create the other cockpit panels which is going to take some time, especially as they will have to be drawn, uploaded and then edited.

And finally a stand off picture of the 'tub' which is coming on slowly but nicely.

the office 1.jpg

As always comments for improvement will be hugely appreciated.

Before I close off, and for the benfit of the rivet counters and MIG pilots, I will add that the dash has been identified as the one on my particular aircraft, following some upgrades, including the fitting of air to air missiles

Keep safe and keep well everyone.

John H. Rood09/06/2020 03:36:13
avatar
272 forum posts
391 photos

David, I have this 1962 reboxing of a 1956 Forrestal-class plastic model kit.  Great old-school proper box art. 

I believe we see here your FJ-3 in action.  Cheers!

Indy circa1962 kit.jpeg

Indy c.1962 kit.jpeg

Edited By John H. Rood on 09/06/2020 04:05:30

John H. Rood09/06/2020 15:51:29
avatar
272 forum posts
391 photos

David, two scans for you:

c.1962 aurora kit of cv62 indy.1.jpg

c.1962 aurora kit of cv62 indy.2.jpg

Your Captain Grey is looking good for an OK-3 on this one.  By the looks of the painting, I'm thinking the original art was done by the great John Steel?  Terrific action-perspective of CV-62, the Indy, one of the great Forrestal class "supercarriers".

You asked about my XFJ-2 Fury build progress: Zero!   But for weeks I have been focused on reorganizing my Cellar of Aeronautical Doom and it has been a colossal battle; a lifetime of STUFF and a glaring lack of discipline as to inefficient STORAGE vs functional WORKSPACE; as part of that war I found this circa 1962 model kit amongst the rubble.

I made these two scans off my small home machine for you; at 1/600th scale the kit is too large to fit on my scanner bed, so here are the two bits. No ideal, but there it is!

I have now declared a bloody stalemate/cease-fire in my battle with my mess; time for me to cut wood on the Fury. The workshop has never been better, all feels very good... so no more excuses! 

Meanwhile, thanks for checking in on me yesterday and kudos on your good work here.  That instrument panel is really COOL.  Sure looks the part!

Edited By John H. Rood on 09/06/2020 16:01:51

David Sack09/06/2020 23:15:23
avatar
45 forum posts
46 photos

Brilliant pictures Sir, thank you very much I believe the aircraft is one of the VF-84 'Vagabonds' squadron. The squadron was established 1st July 1955 and equipped with FJ3/3M Furys. The squadron was deployed twice as part of 'CVG-1' aboard the USS Forrestal. The FJ-3Ms deployed on the USS Randolph between 1958 - 1959. The USS Independence may have been used during the sixth fleet operations in the Med in January 1957, I cannot find proof of this though -sorry

The Fury's were later replaced by Crusaders, Phantoms and Tomcats.

Are you going to build the boat ?? ( asks he who has a loft full of unmade airfix kits)

Glad you are back in the saddle in your workshop and looking forward to more of your build. Cheers.

David Sack29/06/2020 23:50:30
avatar
45 forum posts
46 photos

While all the other bits and pieces are coming together I decided to turn my attention to the drop tanks and Sidewinder installation. I made the club generic drop tank and found it was the incorrect shape for the FJ3 but it was a learning curve and taught me some new tricks. The sidewinder is also very different from our genernic plan. So using photos, models and more photos I designed a mounting for the AIM-9B as carried by the Fury's.

aim 9b mount plan draft.jpg

My prototype is made from a plasticard frame with foam surround and a final layer of balsa. It may sound heavy but the weight is currently 20g with the missile attached. The missile is made from A4 paper rolled around a 12mm knitting needle. My wife owns a wool shop so it was easy to source ! The paper was glued with pva and allowed to dry. There were two coats of polyurethane varnish allowed to dry and harden. Next a coat of white primer again allowed to dry. The fins were cut from 3mm balsa and secured with cyano. The missile is attached to the mounting at three points on the Fury FJ3 and I have emulated this with the fixing on the model.

So this is where I am at at the moment. Great fun ! (.....now where's that MIG ??)

img_2265.jpg

Once this is done I will make the new shape drop tank, and that is going to be a challenge ! If anyone has any plans or drawings for the naval version I'd be glad to hear

John H. Rood04/07/2020 19:00:24
avatar
272 forum posts
391 photos

Excellent, Sacky!

The Sidewinder missile was so aptly named -- developed and tested in the harsh desert of China Lake, California. Deep in memory is the fearsome presence of The Sidewinder, a desert predator that pushed all the right buttons for many of us warped 1950s/60s kids in the USA. We first learned of it in the 1958 Walt Disney Productions' documentary THE LIVING DESERT.

And here's a fun little audio-visual foray into the Sidewinder's mystique!

Turn your audio UP! kuloukuloukulou

 

Edited By John H. Rood on 04/07/2020 19:01:46

David Sack04/07/2020 23:00:15
avatar
45 forum posts
46 photos

Excellent Roody, loved it! With all these learned articles I think we should rename our club the 'Power Scale Soaring University' ?? I have a couple of stories about the Smithsonian which I will endeavour to share with you on another occasion.

It has been difficult to find pictures of the mounting and the best images were in a video which I am sure everyone will enjoy - follow the link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCnrGUZZHhM

David Sack23/09/2020 00:32:58
avatar
45 forum posts
46 photos

The Fury FJ3 has a deeper nose than the Sabre and the shape is slightly different overall. The shape of the cockpit canopy is also a little less than straightforward Had I realised there were so many differences perhaps I would have stuck to an F86 variant ..................nah ! It was always gonna be Navy

Unfortunatley my deeper nose warped ever so slightly and I was not happy with the cockpit. There was no option and so I have had to rebuild it. The challenge of a redesigned front end was undertaken with reference to plans for the FJ3 and using as much of the sabre kit as I could modify to fit. I had used Gorilla glue originally, this time I stuck to cyano. For me the result looks better, meaner ! In this first picture the canopy is resting on the new shape with Captain Grey and the ejector seat in position. Compared with the real thing it doesn't look too far out - but yes, the seat is clearly wrong.

side on view.jpg

The rebuild also gave me an opportunity to redesign the cockpit and with the extra room to move the battery box forward hopefully saving weight at the balancing and trimming stage. The seat was slightly wrong and that has been rebuilt and primed just now waiting for the detail work.The pictures show the 'not quite right' incarnation and the (hopefully) improved version. Captain Grey says he is quite comfortable in the redesigned seat and can't wait to have some seatbelts fitted too ! For some reason he emphasized that ....... several times ?

Ejector seat

img_2931.jpg

img_2934 seat reworking 2.jpg

As an aside I have been bothered by the visor on Captain Greys helmet. Fortunately I found one example that looked near identical on a navy Fury pilot, dated 1957, and feel mightily relieved that the dreaded scale police cannot get me for that one (Yes your honour, I will bring the said photgraphic evidence !!!)

Thanks for reading the continuing 'Greys Saga'

Keep safe everyone.

McG 696923/09/2020 10:47:59
avatar
3415 forum posts
1299 photos

Hi David,

Don't tell me about redesigning a nose for a model... frown

Glad for you that you managed to have your warped one fixed. yes

Keep going & stay safe, young man

Chris

David Sack15/10/2020 08:20:02
avatar
45 forum posts
46 photos

This is a bit of a call for help really. Have any of you preped the fuselage with sanding sealer before using epoxy for the glass ?? My idea is to get the surface as smooth as possible with not to much absorption of the resin - due to a raised BMI.

There is a lot of info on the web but I have not found anything from 'our team' and our airframe so I'd really appreciate your thoughts.

Polyurethane has been mooted as a good way to prep balsa but having had experience with warping I was going to avoid using it until the surface had been sealed with epoxy, and then moving onto McGee's sauce, using the water based polyurethane, to finish.

I was going to avoid using P38, Steve McLaren has an impressive looking surface on his Sabre see his thread here:

https://www.modelflying.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=144587&p=3

It looks great but with my plane already 'obese' I am looking for weight savings.

Keep safe and keep well everyone.

Steve McLaren18/10/2020 22:46:07
avatar
260 forum posts
269 photos

Hi David. I'm no expert but I would recommend that you should deal the balsa with something before you apply the resin. I used acrylic varnish with added talc (very similar the patent 'sauce' recommended by McG). But it's worth spending as much time as you can bear on getting the fuse shape right with lightweight balsa filler first. I ran out of patience, hence the need for the P38 at the end!

David Sack18/10/2020 23:00:21
avatar
45 forum posts
46 photos

Thanks Steve. I have a bit of work to do! I'll post pics when she looks a little more presentable

McG 696919/10/2020 11:50:18
avatar
3415 forum posts
1299 photos

Hi David,

I'm far from an expert either, but here's my approach in a nutshell.

I agree with Steve that after sanding your fuse to shape, my next step is taking care of any flat spots or planking joints with lightweight filler. I mix it with balsa dust and a few drops of diluted PVA (25%) to increase its adhesion to the balsa.

No real need to use a balsa sealer if you use Dirk's glassing method, i.e. bringing the glass on 'dry' and then wet it with epoxy through the cloth. One coat is enough, no need to fill the wave at all.

When your cloth starts to get 'transparent' it's more than enough; if your cloth becomes 'shiny/gloss', you 've been using too much epoxy...

The next step is to apply the Sauce which will cover the wave easily if applied in thin multiple coats with a little sanding in between. Very lightweight and a pleasure to sand smooth.

... of course, leaving everything to dry/cure correctly between the different steps above... angel

Cheers & keep safe, young man

Chris

David Sack19/10/2020 13:35:34
avatar
45 forum posts
46 photos

Many thanks Chris. Love the idea of mixing pva in with the filler, it should improve adhesion enormously. I will post piccys with progress shortly.

All Topics | Latest Posts

Please login to post a reply.

Support Our Partners
CML
Sussex Model Centre
electricwingman 2017
Slec
Sarik
Advertise With Us
Latest "For Sale" Ads
NEW POLL - has the pandemic altered your event safety perceptions?
Q: Has the covid pandemic deterred you from attending shows and events in 2021?

 No, I'll be attending just as many as I usually do
 No, but I'll choose my event with greater care
 Yes, I'll attend fewer events going forward
 Yes, I wont attend any where previously I have

Latest Reviews
Digital Back Issues

RCM&E Digital Back Issues

Contact us

Contact us

Magazine Locator

Want the latest issue of RCM&E? Use our magazine locator link to find your nearest stockist!

Find RCM&E!