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Canadair F4 Sabre XB812

But which squadron?

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Martin Gay14/11/2019 16:24:23
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260 forum posts
230 photos

That's not good Ade, you have more than one, and less than three models worth of balsa to assemble into ... something or other!

Andy Meade15/11/2019 11:15:16
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2671 forum posts
681 photos
Posted by Alan Gorham_ on 14/11/2019 15:27:42:

Are you subbing out prototype builds now Andy.....?

I

Yup - he's been a star on the Meatbox build yes

Hopefully starting mine over the Christmas break!

Alan Gorham_15/11/2019 11:50:05
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1069 forum posts
129 photos

Good show, it'll be good to have a few Meteors flying next year!

Martin Gay15/11/2019 12:00:59
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260 forum posts
230 photos

I will be watching the Meteors with interest!

Flyer15/11/2019 12:06:48
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557 forum posts
82 photos
Posted by Martin Gay on 14/11/2019 16:24:23:

That's not good Ade, you have more than one, and less than three models worth of balsa to assemble into ... something or other!

I'll probably end up with the 'other'........... cheeky

Cheers

Ade

Chris Barlow15/11/2019 21:30:46
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1858 forum posts
1266 photos
Posted by Alan Gorham_ on 14/11/2019 15:27:42:

Are you subbing out prototype builds now Andy.....?

I want to see a picture of the incredibly organised reels of tape above the workbench Chris. I need to up my OCD levels I think!

"The first step to recovery is admitting that you have a problem..."

But I don't have a problem, just not enough space! Things need to be organised and to hand otherwise it means hunting through drawers and boxes, giving up and ordering new things, only to find the lost things a week later!

20191115_204243.jpg

Plastic drawer organiser left, nuts, bolts, washers. Bottom drawer is electronic programmers and test/setup equipment.

Plastic drawer organiser right, wiring plugs and connectors. Bottom drawer is crimping tools & wire stripper (set only for servo plugs)

Window shelf for adhesives (right) and lubricants (left) Oh and an airbrush that should be back in it's box and in the filing cabinet, 2nd drawer down.

Tape shelf for, erm, tape. Duct tape, sellotape, masking tape, insulation tape, aluminium tape, double sided tape, measuring tape, dusting brush and anything else that has to be moved from the bench temporarily whilst setting up.

Magnetic rails overhead hold (left to right) allen drivers (small left, large right) pozi, philips and flat screwdrivers, nut driver, small smanners, hinging knife, scalpels, saw & blades, adjustable wrench then plier tools (long nose, cutters, pliers, scissors) finally 4 2" metal squares and 1 3" square.

G clamps wound onto shelf support also hold steel rulers in the gape. Other clamps and grips behind.

Like I said, no OCD just compact! laugh

Alan Gorham_16/11/2019 09:59:28
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1069 forum posts
129 photos

I'm truly impressed Chris. My brain can't organise things like that into a small space. I just spread stuff out. I might steal so.e of your ideas though to help me find stuff easily.

Chris Barlow22/11/2019 00:59:23
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1858 forum posts
1266 photos

Posted by Andy Meade on 15/11/2019 11:15:16:

He's been a star on the Meatbox build yes

Hopefully starting mine over the Christmas break!

To be honest Al I thought it was an ARTF! surprise laugh

A bit more done on the Sabre over a couple of evenings.

Not being one to take the easy route I wanted the option to add a rudder but without the external snake but unfortunately the pivot for the AFT is dead inline with the hinge line of the proposed rudder, meaning a torque rod would have to pass through the elevator control horn.

With this in mind I built up the horn using 2 pieces of 2.5mm epoxy sheet with a 3/8ths balsa filler in between. This way I can drill a clearance hole through the horn through which I can pass the rudder torque rod, If I wish...

Anyway, horn made up, wires bent, tail planes and rudder laminated and everything trial assembled.

20191122_002704.jpg

The white PTFE tube is free floating in the horn and as such can be passed through the fuselage side, through the horn and then the other fuselage side for assembly. Still need to fit a ball joint to the end of the horn.

20191122_002745.jpg

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It slots in here in the tail. The white PTFE will be glued to the fuselage allowing the horn to pivot. Note no hole drilled yet for the rudder torque tube.

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20191122_002515.jpg

Next job will be to start shaping all those bits.

McG 696922/11/2019 10:59:47
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2706 forum posts
1015 photos

Indeed, you're "not taking the easy route", Chris.

Superb craftsmanship there... and I even started to understand what you want to achieve. surprise

Cheers

Chris

Andy Meade22/11/2019 11:23:08
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2671 forum posts
681 photos

Some excellent problem solving there Chris, great work!

Oh, and I really like the magnetic tool holder idea - might be nicking that! (and also appreciate the Meatbox photobomb)

 

Edited By Andy Meade on 22/11/2019 11:25:05

Alan Gorham_22/11/2019 11:30:19
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1069 forum posts
129 photos

Good work again Chris. I've seen a couple of alternative solutions to the rudder actuating issue. I wasn't keen on them, so I think I may well be stealing your method.

Chris Barlow23/11/2019 22:53:08
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1858 forum posts
1266 photos

Chris, glad you got the gist of what I mean. Sometimes it's difficult to put into words what is only a vague idea in my head!

Thanks Andy. Plenty more photographs to come for another Meatie photobomb! yes

Alan, feel free to pinch any ideas from my workshop although be aware, I make a lot of stuff up off the top of my head! laugh

Adding to the AFT post above I have now setup the linkage with a 3mm ball joint and 4mm carbon pushrod. The M3 threaded rod fits perfectly into the carbon rod and is glued in with epoxy. The ball joint is fitted to the horn with a 2mm bolt cut flush with the epoxy glass plate each side and is secured with M2 nuts on the inside, washers act as spacers to reduce the movement of the ball joint.

A photograph probably explains it better?

20191123_213954.jpg

Harry Twist23/11/2019 23:45:45
332 forum posts
246 photos

Hi Chris, that's very very tidy, nicely done!

McG 696924/11/2019 09:37:12
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2706 forum posts
1015 photos

I really start to like your bell crank mod, Chris.

But I'll patiently wait till your rudder construction starts 'appearing'...

... and then decide if my skills are up to it.

Question, please > you are using a 3mm ball link, is a 2mm one not strong enough???

Cheers

Chris

Chris Barlow26/11/2019 00:32:17
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1858 forum posts
1266 photos

Chris

I used a 3mm ball link because the M3 threaded connector fits perfectly inside the 3mm bore of the 4mm carbon rod, and 4mm carbon rod doesn't flex much when pushing an elevator. M2 would either have to be packed out to suit a 3mm x 4mm carbon rod or use a 4mm rod with a 2mm bore which is more weight in the tail...

Also, I have them in my box of goodies left over from another model! laugh

So, you wanna see a rudder then huh?

A lot a faffing around tonight figuring out the shape of the torque rod setup and hinge line. The torque rod passes through a brass tube bush in the base of the fin to the inside of the fuselage where it immediately bends a little to the tail. This bend prevents the rod from fouling the elevator horn when applying full up. It then continues into the fuselage about another 20mm and bends 90 degrees to the snake connection which is made with a brass tube flattened at one end with a hole for another ball link, soldered onto the torque rod.

The Robart hinges for the rudder are set back approximately 5mm into slots in the leading edge of the rudder, along with the hole for the brass torque rod bush, to throw the hinge line back 6mm from the fin. (5mm setback plus 1mm surface line gap). This is to clear the pivot in the elevator horn which will always be in the same position. The leading edge of the rudder is rounded to about a 5mm radius to match the hinge setback.

Again, photos probably explain it better! laugh

The hole through the elevator horn, Down elevator with neutral rudder.

20191125_233647.jpg

Full up elevator, neutral rudder.

20191125_233657.jpg

Now the movement gets funky! Full up with right rudder. Note the torque rod is over to the right, almost touching the side of F15.

20191125_233723.jpg

Full up elevator, left rudder. The ball joint has moved up inside the fuselage and is almost touching the upper side stringer, and the other side of F15.

20191125_233750.jpg

Finally neutral elevator, neutral rudder. Sorry about the dust!

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The nut and ball joint were a pain to fit!

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From the outside, full up, full right rudder.

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Full down, full right rudder

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And neutral.

20191125_234403.jpg

Chris Barlow26/11/2019 00:38:15
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1858 forum posts
1266 photos

You can just about see the torque rod passing through the brass tube bush at the base of the rudder. Note the rod is inset into the rudder, away from the fin by 5mm.

20191125_234718.jpg

Robart hinges are also set into the rudder to match the torque rod

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Hinge gap looks something like this.

20191125_234732.jpg

Now all that's left to do is undo everything, including that nut, sand to shape and assemble again! surprise

Mark Kettle 126/11/2019 05:08:41
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2470 forum posts
1492 photos

Nice work Chris.

Phil Cooke26/11/2019 12:25:03
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2280 forum posts
1547 photos

great job Chris - most innovative! Top work!

I'm going to feel very lazy not fitting a rudder to mine now... smile d

Alan Gorham_26/11/2019 12:29:58
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1069 forum posts
129 photos

Cough....rudder mass balance...cough...

Andy Meade26/11/2019 13:27:10
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2671 forum posts
681 photos

nee-naw, nee-naw, nee-naw nerd

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